Insecurity

[Kavita]

not again...

IMO, ppl feel most love marriages fail coz ppl talk a lot abt failed love marriages. no one talks abt successful love marriages. even if 1 love marriage fails, ppl use that as an example to paint most love marriages as potential divorce cases.

on the other hand, no one talks of failed arranged marriages or arranged marriages where the spouses suffer each other's company for the sake of society and appearances.

for example, if u notice carefully, all the dowry deaths occur only in arranged marriages and very rarely, if at all, in love marriages. shud it then be concluded that most arranged marriages result in the bride's death?

Yes, failed love marriages get more attention because they are the ones which are expected to be successfull. The girl and the boy choose their parterns themselves, so its expected they being adults, matured, will make a better decission in choosing their parterns than their parents do it for them.



If they fail to choose for them, no surprise if arranged marriages fail more often, because its some one else who takes the decission.

[Sharjeel]

Yes, failed love marriages get more attention because they are the ones which are expected to be successfull. The girl and the boy choose their parterns themselves, so its expected they being adults, matured, will make a better decission in choosing their parterns than their parents do it for them.

If they fail to choose for them, no surprise if arranged marriages fail more often, because its some one else who takes the decission.

Failed Love marraiges should be highlighted . People go against their families, friends, society, etc and do all kinds of sacrifices for their love. Itne logon ka dil dukha ke shaadi bhi nahi nibha sake to they deserve the treatment, and some more.

[CtrlAltDel]

Failed Love marraiges should be highlighted . People go against their families, friends, society, etc and do all kinds of sacrifices for their love. Itne logon ka dil dukha ke shaadi bhi nahi nibha sake to they deserve the treatment, and some more.

:shock:



if the "families, friends, society, etc " do not approve of the marriage its their problem, not the couple's. just some false prestige n pride are hurt and thats no big deal at all. is there any other reason to disapprove love marriages? "log kya kahenge" and "hamare khaandan ke izzat ka kya hoga" are the main reasons. no one gives a logical reason not to proceed with the marriage. the oldies shud learn to respect the youngsters' choices coz they are the future.



under the same logic, why do people push failed arranged marriages under the carpet? would the so called wise elders take some blame for say, a dowry death of their girl? but no, they will commit the same mistake for the next daughter too and say "thats tradition".



successful love marriages which are also numerous should also be high lighted. we cannot expect the oldies to do that. we have to do that.

[MLS]

Failed Love marraiges should be highlighted . People go against their families, friends, society, etc and do all kinds of sacrifices for their love. Itne logon ka dil dukha ke shaadi bhi nahi nibha sake to they deserve the treatment, and some more.

:shock:

if the "families, friends, society, etc " do not approve of the marriage its their problem, not the couple's. just some false prestige n pride are hurt and thats no big deal at all. is there any other reason to disapprove love marriages? "log kya kahenge" and "hamare khaandan ke izzat ka kya hoga" are the main reasons. no one gives a logical reason not to proceed with the marriage. the oldies shud learn to respect the youngsters' choices coz they are the future.

under the same logic, why do people push failed arranged marriages under the carpet? would the so called wise elders take some blame for say, a dowry death of their girl? but no, they will commit the same mistake for the next daughter too and say "thats tradition".

successful love marriages which are also numerous should also be high lighted. we cannot expect the oldies to do that. we have to do that.

The bottom line for the success of any marriage is compatibility. At more than one level..... physical, emotional, intellectual etc. And like any other relationship it needs time to grow and mature.



At a risk of sounding like a cat on a wall, both approaches to marriage have their pluses as well drawbacks. While in an arranged marriage one grows to love a person after figuring out if certain specifics are met(on paper). There could a certain adventure involoved in trying to get to know the person and stuff like that. On the flip side, if it turns out that certain expectations explicit or implicit arent met ...it could get rather sticky.



On the other hand, for a love marriage, there would be clarity on the expectations front, likelihood of disappointments could be rather less. But by the time a couple would get married, they would peak in their relationship and that could prolly be biggest drawback.



All said and done, its all about choices. I have not talked about external factors in both cases. Not that they do not hold a bearing at all. In the Indian context you do have a lot of pressues from family, career etc that have a direct bearing on any marriage. Its all upto the individual and his/her spouse and how committed they are.



To answer your initial qn Arti(its only a guess), your cousin might want an educated wife for compatibility. So that if she is around their children they gain from her. And as to why he wanted her to be a housewife, its probably because he didnt want to go thru the dual stress of home as well as work. Its possible in such a situation the lady quite naturally may feel deprived of certain choice. And if she gets into the marriage, like you said she has no right to crib. And if I were him, I would prolly leave it to her to work or not.

[Kavita]

under the same logic, why do people push failed arranged marriages under the carpet? would the so called wise elders take some blame for say, a dowry death of their girl? but no, they will commit the same mistake for the next daughter too and say "thats tradition".

yes, they do the same thing for their next daughter, but I dont think its a mistake. Arent there couples in arranged marriages who are living happily. Father is optimistic and/or helpless here. Think practically, if a father staunchly says I am not going to marry off my daughter to a guy who takes dowry, will she ever get married, if the girl too doesnt want to look a guy for herself? Many girls and guys want to oblige their parents.

There will be lots of people in queue to give dowry. Boss, sorry God, lot of competition exists in the marrige market, if you dont make the deal on time, the guy will be sold off to some one else.

Nothing will happen if one father says so, every father has to say that and every daughter has to support that and every son has to agree that.

[Sharjeel]

if the "families, friends, society, etc " do not approve of the marriage its their problem, not the couple's. just some false prestige n pride are hurt and thats no big deal at all. is there any other reason to disapprove love marriages? "log kya kahenge" and "hamare khaandan ke izzat ka kya hoga" are the main reasons. no one gives a logical reason not to proceed with the marriage. the oldies shud learn to respect the youngsters' choices coz they are the future.

Elders are very shrewd people. They be having more experience in life than us. They know that people cannot get by on love alone. They first look at the family, then the financial status of the interested party. hey take every step carefully, and then the last part of the equation is to look at the compatibility of the two people, which is very important. The 'deal' is cancelled at any step if a problem is sensed. In this case the chances that the marraige will prosper are more.

Compare this with a love marraige, in which Sharjeel falls for agirl he hardly knows. She may or may not be good for him. Later he finds out that she is alcoholic/insecure/possessive/etc. It ends in heartbreak for both. In this case, the odds that the marraige will ucceed totally depends upon the discretion and intellegence of the two. If Sharjeel falls for someone who is not good for him, then he is doomed. Which is why I would always prefer that my elders choose someone for me, after which I may or may not marry her.

under the same logic, why do people push failed arranged marriages under the carpet? would the so called wise elders take some blame for say, a dowry death of their girl? but no, they will commit the same mistake for the next daughter too and say "thats tradition". successful love marriages which are also numerous should also be high lighted. we cannot expect the oldies to do that. we have to do that.

Agree that love marraiges are better and that they can be very good. But the odds are too High.



The reason why there are so many failed arranged marraiges is thatalmost everyone has an arranged marraige, so the percentage of divorces will also be high, becuz that is the only type of marraige there exists (practically).

[Kavita]

In continuation to my earlier post,



How many are interested to say no to dowry? A Father cribs while getting his daughter married and demands dowry while getting his (same father) sons married.



Most worry-some part is people are not even trying to break this cycle. Leave oldies, people who are getting married are not opposing it. Ultimate thing is, dowry is demanded even in love marriages. Daughter feels why should I give dowry but never says that to her father, because its a fact that its tough to get married if you r not willing to pay. Sons feels I have worked so hard and I am going to support her for life time (forgets that wife takes care of the house too) so I deserve it. And how can anyone one say NO to lacs of rupees.

[CtrlAltDel]

Elders are very shrewd people. They be having more experience in life than us. They know that people cannot get by on love alone. They first look at the family, then the financial status of the interested party. hey take every step carefully, and then the last part of the equation is to look at the compatibility of the two people, which is very important.

so, why do they assume that a if their kid chooses a partner, it wud not be a proper choice? its not as simple as u say. the "Image" in society plays a very HUGE part in the minds of the elders. even if the partner is good enough, many elders may not approve only coz the "kid" dared to choose.

The 'deal' is cancelled at any step if a problem is sensed.

"deal"...thats wat it is in danger of ending up as....

In this case the chances that the marraige will prosper are more.

what if the bride or groom show their true colors after the wedding? the wife turns out to be a home breaker or the husband a wife beater or worse, impotent....then what?
then what usually happens in India is that the matter is hushed up for "society" sake.

Compare this with a love marraige, in which Sharjeel falls for agirl he hardly knows. She may or may not be good for him. Later he finds out that she is alcoholic/insecure/possessive/etc. It ends in heartbreak for both.

that happens if u plunge into a marriage within months of meeting a girl. the risk is as bad a sin arranged marriages.

If Sharjeel falls for someone who is not good for him, then he is doomed. Which is why I would always prefer that my elders choose someone for me, after which I may or may not marry her.

what if sharjeel's 'arranged' wife turns out to be entirely different from what he has seen of her before the marriage? u cant expect a girl's parents to talk abt her negative points...wud he run to the elders?

[marko]

if the "families, friends, society, etc " do not approve of the marriage its their problem, not the couple's. just some false prestige n pride are hurt and thats no big deal at all. is there any other reason to disapprove love marriages? "log kya kahenge" and "hamare khaandan ke izzat ka kya hoga" are the main reasons. no one gives a logical reason not to proceed with the marriage. the oldies shud learn to respect the youngsters' choices coz they are the future.

Elders are very shrewd people. They be having more experience in life than us. They know that people cannot get by on love alone. They first look at the family, then the financial status of the interested party. hey take every step carefully, and then the last part of the equation is to look at the compatibility of the two people, which is very important. The 'deal' is cancelled at any step if a problem is sensed. In this case the chances that the marraige will prosper are more.

Compare this with a love marraige, in which Sharjeel falls for agirl he hardly knows. She may or may not be good for him. Later he finds out that she is alcoholic/insecure/possessive/etc. It ends in heartbreak for both. In this case, the odds that the marraige will ucceed totally depends upon the discretion and intellegence of the two. If Sharjeel falls for someone who is not good for him, then he is doomed. Which is why I would always prefer that my elders choose someone for me, after which I may or may not marry her.

under the same logic, why do people push failed arranged marriages under the carpet? would the so called wise elders take some blame for say, a dowry death of their girl? but no, they will commit the same mistake for the next daughter too and say "thats tradition". successful love marriages which are also numerous should also be high lighted. we cannot expect the oldies to do that. we have to do that.

Agree that love marraiges are better and that they can be very good. But the odds are too High.

The reason why there are so many failed arranged marraiges is thatalmost everyone has an arranged marraige, so the percentage of divorces will also be high, becuz that is the only type of marraige there exists (practically).

lack of choice means lack of responsibility, it's as simple as that. I love India, but one thing i see is that in taking choice away from people you take responsibility also, and this creates a society where exceptional behaviour is neither punished (in the case of exceptionally bad) nor rewarded (in the case of exceptionally good). Regardless of whether love marrages or arranged marrages are better, if you don't take responsibility for your own life then it's never going to be as rewarding. it might be safer but that doesnt make it better.



This coming from someone who kinda likes the idea of arranged marrages, in principle. however, if your parents are responsible for sorting out this aspect of your life, they are responsible for the success or failure of it. while they obviously have a large stake in it, it is you who the decision will effect directly, not them. I personally feel the need to be responsible for my own life, if something goes wrong i have only myself to blame. if something goes right then it's probably luck

[Arti]

, because its a fact that its tough to get married if you r not willing to pay. Sons feels I have worked so hard and I am going to support her for life time (forgets that wife takes care of the house too) so I deserve it. And how can anyone one say NO to lacs of rupees.

Sorry to awaken from slumber after 20 days... which era do you live in?

[Arti]

Compare this with a love marraige, in which Sharjeel falls for agirl he hardly knows. She may or may not be good for him. Later he finds out that she is alcoholic/insecure/possessive/etc. It ends in heartbreak for both. In this case, the odds that the marraige will ucceed totally depends upon the discretion and intellegence of the two. If Sharjeel falls for someone who is not good for him, then he is doomed. Which is why I would always prefer that my elders choose someone for me, after which I may or may not marry her.

Come on... your chances of figuring out that the girl is an insecure possessive alcoholic are higher when you meet the girl and like her... I'm sure girls (or people in general) could hide this very well and go through the arranged marriage.



And please... how will someone know who is good for you?

[Jaan]

Compare this with a love marraige, in which Sharjeel falls for agirl he hardly knows. She may or may not be good for him. Later he finds out that she is alcoholic/insecure/possessive/etc. It ends in heartbreak for both. In this case, the odds that the marraige will ucceed totally depends upon the discretion and intellegence of the two. If Sharjeel falls for someone who is not good for him, then he is doomed. Which is why I would always prefer that my elders choose someone for me, after which I may or may not marry her.

Come on... your chances of figuring out that the girl is an insecure possessive alcoholic are higher when you meet the girl and like her... I'm sure girls (or people in general) could hide this very well and go through the arranged marriage.

And please... how will someone know who is good for you?

Agreed on Arti's point. Unless "Sharjeel" meets her, how do you know all this? Ok, so you marry Candidate 1: You should try working around the situation, I don't think that one factor leads to heartbreak for both.



Candidate 2: I don't know in what context you are speaking of when you say "not good for him," you mean like a bad girl at heart or something? I think there is always room for change...not every situation is as hopeless!



Jaan



P.S. Sharjeel, why do you worry? More than half the girls won't qualify because they won't have name with an "S"!

[Jaan]

Coming back to Arti's original question in this topic:



*Dr. Jaan mode*

After reading and evaluating eveyone else's reply, here are my observations/conclusions:



1. In usual cases, men who prefer Housewives and are in the top rungs of the corporate ladder, tend to have "trophy wives." Since, the husband is already earning enough for the both of them in their marriage, the male in these type of relationships assume their dominance and dictate the progress of their marriage.



2. Since the girl knew what she was agreeing and getting into in the beginning of the marriage: she knows exactly what she is doing right now (with all the whining and cribs). Ignorance does not play a huge role in her case.



3. As to her constant complaining when her relatives come over, there are two explanations:

3.1 She is doing this for (extra?) attention. Or this is her way to get it out of her system (she is a PG? you mentioned?)

3.2 It is fashionable, since she did get married recently. Most married couples develop a comfortable groove in their relationship after 3 to 4 years of their marriage (it depends on the level of intensity, seriousness, and the factors important to each couple for their relationship)



*can't think of any other points, will post if I have forgotten something*



(Dr.) Jaan

[Arti]

1. In usual cases, men who prefer Housewives and are in the top rungs of the corporate ladder, tend to have "trophy wives." Since, the husband is already earning enough for the both of them in their marriage, the male in these type of relationships assume their dominance and dictate the progress of their marriage.

Thanks Jaan... another question... is working only about earning enough for the both of them? This isn't a question for you specifically... its a question for the DBs in general. What if I earn more than my future husband does? Will he be willing to be a househusband because I make enough for both of us?

[Jaan]

Traditionally, the male and female roles are pretty cut and dried. A lot depends on a lot. If you are planning to get arranged marriage, I do suggest that you find someone that earns more than you, for 3 basic reasons:

1. it lessens problems with inlaws

2. the poor's guy ego is not hurt

3. you will be fulfilling you dutiful role in the relationship

*this applies purely in arranged marriages*



If it is a love (or love and then arranged): depending on the tensions between the families, I would recommend laying down boundaries and setting up borders, so things do not go overbound on such minute details. The best way is to talk about such (however droll or embarassing it might be) beforehand. If it (or any matter) is uncomfortable before marriage, it will be an inconvenience and a handicap later.



Jaan

[malakpetmasala]

Traditionally, the male and female roles are pretty cut and dried. A lot depends on a lot. If you are planning to get arranged marriage, I do suggest that you find someone that earns more than you, for 3 basic reasons:
1. it lessens problems with inlaws
2. the poor's guy ego is not hurt
3. you will be fulfilling you dutiful role in the relationship
*this applies purely in arranged marriages*

If it is a love (or love and then arranged): depending on the tensions between the families, I would recommend laying down boundaries and setting up borders, so things do not go overbound on such minute details. The best way is to talk about such (however droll or embarassing it might be) beforehand. If it (or any matter) is uncomfortable before marriage, it will be an inconvenience and a handicap later.

Jaan

i guess it is true.... atleast the in-laws pat of it.

[Sharjeel]

Compare this with a love marraige, in which Sharjeel falls for agirl he hardly knows. She may or may not be good for him. Later he finds out that she is alcoholic/insecure/possessive/etc. It ends in heartbreak for both. In this case, the odds that the marraige will ucceed totally depends upon the discretion and intellegence of the two. If Sharjeel falls for someone who is not good for him, then he is doomed. Which is why I would always prefer that my elders choose someone for me, after which I may or may not marry her.

Come on... your chances of figuring out that the girl is an insecure possessive alcoholic are higher when you meet the girl and like her... I'm sure girls (or people in general) could hide this very well and go through the arranged marriage.

And please... how will someone know who is good for you?

Sorry for the late reply. I had forgotten all about this thread .

Arranged marraiges are finalised after looking at the girl/boy proper, and her family's record. So, the least that can be expected from an arranged marraige is that the girl's/boy'sfamily is good (Family's 'record' means a lot. Too many point to write, just figure it out for urself)

This means that atleast your parents have got your bases covered, and the groom/brides family will be good.

When Manal was married, we had moved to Hyd, but the groom sallahs sent someone to nagpur to verify ur family's history: How nice we were, whether Manal was good or not, etc.

This thing does not ensure a happy marraige, but it is the max. a person can do to guarantee one.

Agreed on Arti's point. Unless "Sharjeel" meets her, how do you know all this? Ok, so you marry

Jaan

P.S. Sharjeel, why do you worry? More than half the girls won't qualify because they won't have name with an "S"!

:lol: I knew you were gonna say that!



As far as knowing about a person before meeting him/her is concerned, any family would ensure that the girl they are about to bring into their home will be a good one, by asking at her college, with her friends, etc.



Again, I repeat that this is not a guarantee for success.



Compare this with love. many times I like a person and I ignore many of his bad traits, because hiss good points are too many, but when I start to live with him/her, then the bad habits of that person will become a major headache...

[Jaan]

P.S. Sharjeel, why do you worry? More than half the girls won't qualify because they won't have name with an "S"!

:lol: I knew you were gonna say that!

Jaan

P.S This is not spam!

[Aquarian81]

Jaan,

I think your cousin loves sitting on his high horse, he needs to be brought down, pronto. I think he feels very powerful with the fact that he was able to get himself a well educated gal, yet he can tell her what she can and cant do.



As for her, I think she is hopefully in love with the chap and doesnt want him to leave her. But she needs to vent, so she does in front of relatives.

[Jaan]

Jaan,
I think your cousin loves sitting on his high horse, he needs to be brought down, pronto. I think he feels very powerful with the fact that he was able to get himself a well educated gal, yet he can tell her what she can and cant do.

As for her, I think she is hopefully in love with the chap and doesnt want him to leave her. But she needs to vent, so she does in front of relatives.

UH, Arti posted this thread. Not my cousin.



Jaan

[malakpetmasala]

Jaan,
I think your cousin loves sitting on his high horse, he needs to be brought down, pronto. I think he feels very powerful with the fact that he was able to get himself a well educated gal, yet he can tell her what she can and cant do.

As for her, I think she is hopefully in love with the chap and doesnt want him to leave her. But she needs to vent, so she does in front of relatives.

UH, Arti posted this thread. Not my cousin.

Jaan

Aqua, since when did Jaan start looking llike Arti aunty?

[Arti]

Aqua, since when did Jaan start looking llike Arti aunty?

AUNTY???

[Reality,,its here.Accept it.]

Thanks Jaan... another question... is working only about earning enough for the both of them? This isn't a question for you specifically... its a question for the DBs in general. What if I earn more than my future husband does? Will he be willing to be a househusband because I make enough for both of us?

> i wouldnt have any issues with being a househusband, but i talked to a lot of girls about this issue and most of them arent comfortable with the idea of a husband who isnt seen as being successfull. So i guess I dont have much of a chance..

[Aquarian81]

Jaan,
I think your cousin loves sitting on his high horse, he needs to be brought down, pronto. I think he feels very powerful with the fact that he was able to get himself a well educated gal, yet he can tell her what she can and cant do.

As for her, I think she is hopefully in love with the chap and doesnt want him to leave her. But she needs to vent, so she does in front of relatives.

UH, Arti posted this thread. Not my cousin.

Jaan

Oops! My bad! I apologize.

[Arti]

Oops! My bad! I apologize.

And I was wondering if Jaan's cousin had done the same thing!!!