A day of great shame.

[The Jackal]

Oh no not again.

[Habitual Perfectionist]

Sorry Jackal...but need to blow some sunshine where the sun don't shine.



Amit...take your daily life...or for that matter...anyone's. Does it really make a difference to them whether they are hindus or muslims or whatever? I don't think your newspaper vendor gives you any preferential treatment just because you belong to a particular religion. Same goes for your milkman, vegetable vendor, grocer, collegues, boss, autowallah, motor mechanic and domestic help. Nobody among these behave differently with you just because you belong to a different religion.



Has being a hindu or a muslim ever stopped you from getting education or a means of livelihood? Has your religion made you pay more taxes? Or was our religious preference ever been a stumbling block in any other endevours of yours?



Its plainly political bullshit coming from the parivar in specific and other political parties (congress, left all included) in general that says that hindus are not getting their due in this country. We are still very much a secular nation.



Finally, on the question of sops provided to certain segments of the society to garner votes, all classes get a piece of the cake somewhere or the other...it all balances out in the end.

[The Jackal]

Sorry Jackal...but need to blow some sunshine where the sun don't shine.

Go ahead.

[Reality,,its here.Accept it.]

Sorry Jackal...but need to blow some sunshine where the sun don't shine.

Amit...take your daily life...or for that matter...anyone's.

Has being a hindu or a muslim ever stopped you from getting education or a means of livelihood? Or was our religious preference ever been a stumbling block in any other endevours of yours?

> Did someone conviniently forget something?

Minority reservations ?

I dont see any political parties falling head over heals to offer reservations to the so called forward castes in the majority population?



Or this doesnt count as a stumbling block in getting education ? i am not sure. let the sun shine here a bit.

[Igiveadamn]

Has being a hindu or a muslim ever stopped you from getting education or a means of livelihood? Has your religion made you pay more taxes? Or was our religious preference ever been a stumbling block in any other endevours of yours?

Its plainly political bullshit coming from the parivar in specific and other political parties (congress, left all included) in general that says that hindus are not getting their due in this country. We are still very much a secular nation.

Finally, on the question of sops provided to certain segments of the society to garner votes, all classes get a piece of the cake somewhere or the other...it all balances out in the end.

Yeah please throw some sunshine like reality said, where's the balance?

[Habitual Perfectionist]

Reservations would be the only exception to the general norm and I apologise for having left them out of my post. But even in case of reservations, you'll see that its not a religion based segregation, but a vote based one. Had the middle class (and the biggest chunk of the middle class comes from the so-called forward castes) not been so apathetic towards voting, they'd have had their own reservations by now.





What I meant by the sunshine I blew was that all the talk about preferential treatment given to minorities on the basis of religion is nothing but political rhetoric.

[Reality,,its here.Accept it.]

Reservations would be the only exception to the general norm and I apologise for having left them out of my post. But even in case of reservations, you'll see that its not a religion based segregation, but a vote based one. Had the middle class (and the biggest chunk of the middle class comes from the so-called forward castes) not been so apathetic towards voting, they'd have had their own reservations by now.


What I meant by the sunshine I blew was that all the talk about preferential treatment given to minorities on the basis of religion is nothing but political rhetoric.

> So now from being the politician's folly of offering reservations, its the middle class's mistake not to demand a share of their own.

Am I the only one here who can't get around the twisted logic or Is it straight enough for the most of the people here?

[Reality,,its here.Accept it.]

Reservations would be the only exception to the general norm and I apologise for having left them out of my post. But even in case of reservations, you'll see that its not a religion based segregation, but a vote based one. Had the middle class (and the biggest chunk of the middle class comes from the so-called forward castes) not been so apathetic towards voting, they'd have had their own reservations by now.


What I meant by the sunshine I blew was that all the talk about preferential treatment given to minorities on the basis of religion is nothing but political rhetoric.

> So now from being the politician's folly of offering reservations, its the middle class's mistake not to demand a share of their own.

Am I the only one here who can't get around the twisted logic or Is it straight enough for the most of the people here?

[Habitual Perfectionist]

You're getting me all wrong here. Even when I said that the sops balance out, I wasn't saying that they're good. They are detrimental to the progress of the nation. I was just sticking to the topic here and my point was that there should not be a religious connotation to the issue of sops being provided to certain classes of people.



Having said that, let me address this from your point of view too. The middle class is definitely at fault for not being active in the political process. I wouldn't call it their mistake for not demanding their fair share but they don't have a right to crib (which obviously, we all do) that the politicians are leading the country to the dogs.

[Reality,,its here.Accept it.]

Well coming back to the discussion, I dont totally agree when it is said that their should not be religious connotations to the sops offered.

How can u make them seperate when the government says that a particular community is offered reservations? even if it said the economically backward in that community. When the government uses that specific language they are useing it so that there is a religious connotation to it. Thats the whole intention, not the betterment of that particular community.

[Habitual Perfectionist]

In that case, people from all religions have some reservations for them. For that matter, hindus corner the largest chunk of reservations. Where is the question of minority appeasement here?

[Reality,,its here.Accept it.]

In that case, people from all religions have some reservations for them. For that matter, hindus corner the largest chunk of reservations. Where is the question of minority appeasement here?

> Simple counter arguement to that HP,

Hindus do not get reservations because they are Hindus. They get it because they are a backward section among the majority community. The reservations for Hindus are not religion based.

Minorities getting reservations in a state ruled by the Minority for centuries does not sound logical. Or does it?

[Habitual Perfectionist]

In that case, people from all religions have some reservations for them. For that matter, hindus corner the largest chunk of reservations. Where is the question of minority appeasement here?

> Simple counter arguement to that HP,
Hindus do not get reservations because they are Hindus. They get it because they are a backward section among the majority community. The reservations for Hindus are not religion based.
Minorities getting reservations in a state ruled by the Minority for centuries does not sound logical. Or does it?

I'm sorry but I'd have to call that double standards. One one hand you are all up in arms against muslims getting reservations. But you are okay with backward hindus getting the same. If you have a bone to pick up with religion based reservations, why not with caste based ones? As it is, the actually backward people are not the ones who benefit from these reservations for them.



The founding fathers of our constitution had professed reservations for a short period of time just to get the downtrodden back into the mainstream. But what we are seeing today is entirely different. Personally, I'm against the very idea of reservations. Does it sound logical to you that a student who has barely scraped past his +2 exams gets a seat in a medical college just because he was born to a particular family?



Finally, I reiterate the point I made about these reservations and the motives behind them. Hindus don't have reservations because they are hindus. They have reservations because the backward communities vote en-bloc. Similarly, muslims too don't have reservations because they are muslims. They have them because muslims too, vote en-bloc.



I hope my point is pretty clear by now and I don't have to repeat myself here.

[CtrlAltDel]

...and recently some parties made noises abt reservations in private sector...do they want the country to go to dogs? thankfully the industry oppossed collectively and no one talks of it any more (other than naxals i suppose)

[DQ]

Why did the whole concept of reservation start after all ?



The country would remain doomed, until equality was not practised.

Vices like untouchablity were wide spread. Were ? No they still are.



- A Babu would never want the son of a mali or coolie to work in the same office he does.



- The so called powerful and strong lobbies (read upper cast) never let that dream of equal opportunity rule. Be it admission in school or anywhere.



- Reservation had to be introduced for the basic principles of state policy to exist.



Not sure how beneficial reservation is to the minorities today. But had to be introduced to curb the hate and its after effects spread by the so called RVs. But these so called RVs still continue to draw political mileage out of it.



If hate campaigns / and vices like untouchability stop, automatically reservation will perish. If an Equal oppurtunity enviornment is created, where is the place for reservation ?

[lonewolf]

Why did the whole concept of reservation start after all ?

The country would remain doomed, until equality was not practised.
Vices like untouchablity were wide spread. Were ? No they still are.

DQ "kaamwali" dude is back with his message of equality



Ok, I don't really know why we still have reservations in India, but I think its about time the concept needs to be thrown into the gutter. If someone is really eligible for a seat, give him or her a student loan that is to be repaid one or two years after graduating. Maybe this can qualify as a "financial reservation" for the deserving, and its not totally free for the student. Enough number of qualified students have been denied careers suiting their credentials, while many useless lamers get into colleges with their certificates claiming they belong to the "backward" community; do a background check on them and you'll find many with enough property to pay tuition fees for the whole class!!



And what the hell was that about reservations in the private sector? Did the politicians get bitten by mad dogs that were bitten by politicians earlier? Oh heck..if that ever happens, INDIA will really stand for India Never Develops In Anything. I'm glad they lost that stupid proposal.

[Reality,,its here.Accept it.]

Why did the whole concept of reservation start after all ?

The country would remain doomed, until equality was not practised.
Vices like untouchablity were wide spread. Were ? No they still are.

- A Babu would never want the son of a mali or coolie to work in the same office he does.

- The so called powerful and strong lobbies (read upper cast) never let that dream of equal opportunity rule. Be it admission in school or anywhere.

- Reservation had to be introduced for the basic principles of state policy to exist.


If hate campaigns / and vices like untouchability stop, automatically reservation will perish. If an Equal oppurtunity enviornment is created, where is the place for reservation ?

> I agree the country is doomed if we discreminate among ourshelves.

But what i do not agree is that reservations will force a change in the attitude. They infact widen the divisions.

Imagine a situation where you enter a college and see that people who barely qualify to pass the exam are sitting next to you? does that foster good relations and healthy attitudes? I know this for a fact that people who are backward but get into the merit quota get respect from their peers. Therefore I think that the whole concept of reservations for the purpose of bringing them into the mainstream is wrong. But it did achive one goal, made the backwards a little more educated and financially secure.

I think a better way of integrating society would be to encourage marraiges between different catses and religions.. Bold idea I guess.

[akhilis2cool]

I heard that there are three unbailable warrants against the Imam of macca masjid....why isnt he being arrested

P.S if neone can thro some lite on this issue...its very welkum.

[Reality,,its here.Accept it.]

I heard that there are three unbailable warrants against the Imam of macca masjid....why isnt he being arrested
P.S if neone can thro some lite on this issue...its very welkum.

> Even if that is true, what are u asking for - another riot? and more police charged with attempt to murder?

common now wake up.

The government and opposition are still idle, dont give them ideas.



By the way, is it macca masjid or jama masjid?

[akhilis2cool]

I heard that there are three unbailable warrants against the Imam of macca masjid....why isnt he being arrested
P.S if neone can thro some <a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=lite%20on" onmouseover="window.status='lite on'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">lite on</a> this issue...its very welkum.

> Even if that is true, what are u asking for - another riot? and more police charged with attempt to murder?
common now wake up.
The government and opposition are still idle, dont give them ideas.

By the way, is it macca masjid or jama masjid?

i guess its the jama masjid.....

yeh the congress wld. protect there vote bank.....

[Kavita]

i wish a certain fuzzy haired gay godman living in south andhra pradesh got arrested first..

But what about the medical-treatment-at-minimal/free-rates and the water projects financed by him (read from dikshinas/bla** money he gets)? All counts for me is, what good/bad he is doing to the society. This does mean I dont hate him.



And people too prefer to be fooled rather than applying their brains.

[Kavita]

i wish a certain fuzzy haired gay godman living in south andhra pradesh got arrested first..

But what about the medical-treatment-at-minimal/free-rates and the water projects financed by him (read from dikshinas/bla** money he gets)? All counts for me is, what good/bad he is doing to the society. This does mean I dont hate him.



And people too prefer to be fooled rather than applying their brains.

[Amit]

Yes, I agree with Habitual.. finally it all boils down to protecting vote banks and the politicians aren't doing anything for any community. If any community would promise them votes, no matter who they are, these guys would go any length. So, the question now gets down to why this poor state of affairs here?

In that case, people from all religions have some reservations for them. For that matter, hindus corner the largest chunk of reservations. Where is the question of minority appeasement here?

> Simple counter arguement to that HP,
Hindus do not get reservations because they are Hindus. They get it because they are a backward section among the majority community. The reservations for Hindus are not religion based.
Minorities getting reservations in a state ruled by the Minority for centuries does not sound logical. Or does it?

I'm sorry but I'd have to call that double standards. One one hand you are all up in arms against muslims getting reservations. But you are okay with backward hindus getting the same. If you have a bone to pick up with religion based reservations, why not with caste based ones? As it is, the actually backward people are not the ones who benefit from these reservations for them.

The founding fathers of our constitution had professed reservations for a short period of time just to get the downtrodden back into the mainstream. But what we are seeing today is entirely different. Personally, I'm against the very idea of reservations. Does it sound logical to you that a student who has barely scraped past his +2 exams gets a seat in a medical college just because he was born to a particular family?

Finally, I reiterate the point I made about these reservations and the motives behind them. Hindus don't have reservations because they are hindus. They have reservations because the backward communities vote en-bloc. Similarly, muslims too don't have reservations because they are muslims. They have them because muslims too, vote en-bloc.

I hope my point is pretty clear by now and I don't have to repeat myself here.

[Amit]

Again, there two sides of religion, one is the personal side and the other - the community side. The latter is what is exploited. The guys at the parivar crib because the minorities get more political mileage than the majority. Our daily lives probably are not largely affected by being a Hindu/Muslim but that's because it is you and me perched comfortably at the higher end of the social ladder. The point that still remains is that one religious community leverages greater political power than the other. And if there is nothing wrong with it, then the plight of kashmiri pandits is just a farce.

Sorry Jackal...but need to blow some sunshine where the sun don't shine.

Amit...take your daily life...or for that matter...anyone's. Does it really make a difference to them whether they are hindus or muslims or whatever? I don't think your newspaper vendor gives you any preferential treatment just because you belong to a particular religion. Same goes for your milkman, vegetable vendor, grocer, collegues, boss, autowallah, motor mechanic and domestic help. Nobody among these behave differently with you just because you belong to a different religion.

Has being a hindu or a muslim ever stopped you from getting education or a means of livelihood? Has your religion made you pay more taxes? Or was our religious preference ever been a stumbling block in any other endevours of yours?

Its plainly political bullshit coming from the parivar in specific and other political parties (congress, left all included) in general that says that hindus are not getting their due in this country. We are still very much a secular nation.

Finally, on the question of sops provided to certain segments of the society to garner votes, all classes get a piece of the cake somewhere or the other...it all balances out in the end.

[Bimbette]

i wish a certain fuzzy haired gay godman living in south andhra pradesh got arrested first..

But what about the medical-treatment-at-minimal/free-rates and the water projects financed by him (read from dikshinas/bla** money he gets)? All counts for me is, what good/bad he is doing to the society. This does mean I dont hate him.

And people too prefer to be fooled rather than applying their brains.

He has changed the face of Puttaparthy. Thats what matters. Schools/Colleges/Hospitals/Research Labs etc have come up there courtesy him and many have benefited.



Frankly I dont have an idea of his background. I'm not a full fledged devotee either. All I know is that there are people who have immense faith in him and he has worked wonders in their lives.



This is a potentially volatile subject. If u dont have something nice to say about a person, dont say anything at all.



PS The 'u' is a generic term, not meant for any particular FH member.