Facts about our National anthem

[asli_badmash]

I didn't say that the song is not good. I said that it's a translation of the british national anthem and thus, didn't really deserve to be where it is.

I dont think I quite agree with that HP.. lets analyze!



Since the talk is about our national anthem I thought.. OK.. lets actaully look into the meaning of the two national anthems; the british and the Indian. I cut and paste them for your reference below... You say that the our national anthem is a translation of british.. fine I will take that but correct me If I am wrong.. you have never presented any proof to bolster your argument... If you make a statement dont you think you should provide the facts to support your opinion to make a strong argument.



You read both the national anthems side by side and tell me how do you think the Indian National Anthem is a translation of the British? I dont find a single verse that can be called a translation of the British national anthem.



I am sure we are not in dispute of the meaning of the word "Translation".



Indian National Anthem (In English)

Thou art the ruler of the minds of all people,
Dispenser of India's destiny.
Thy name rouses the hearts of the Punjab,
Sind, Gujarat, and Maratha,
Of the Dravid, and Orissa and Bengal.
It echoes in the hills of Vindhyas and,
Himalayas, mingles in the music of the
Jamuna and the Ganges and is chanted by
the waves of the Indian sea.
The pray for the blessings,
and sing by the praise,
The saving of all people
waits in thy hand.
Thou dispenser of India's destiny,
Victory, victory, victory to thee.



British National Anthem :God Save the Queen(King)

God save our gracious Queen(King),
Long live our noble Queen(King),
God save the Queen(King).
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save the Queen (King).

O lord God arise,
Scatter our enemies,
And make them fall!
Confound their knavish tricks,
Confuse their politics,
On you our hopes we fix,
God save the Queen (King)!

Not in this land alone,
But be God's mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world ov'er.

From every latent foe,
From the assasins blow,
God save the Queen (King)!
O'er her (his) thine arm extend,
For Britain's sake defend,
Our mother, prince, and friend,
God save the Queen (King)!

Thy choicest gifts in store,
On her (his) be pleased to pour,
Long may she (he) reign!
May she (he) defend our laws,
And ever give us cause,
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen (King)!

[asli_badmash]

Whos Opposing it???
1. Whats Islam got to do with it?
2. If you do not sing how do you become Un Indian ?

I have posted a news article sometime back about a fatwa issued by a maulvi in UP. He threated to expel anyone singing vandemataram from the quam. Check that thread.

Yes.. I read that MM. I treat that with the same contempt I have for Uma Bharati trying to raise the Indian flag in the Idgah at Hubli.



The Mullah's intent might be propagating his personal religious view but it clashes with the Unity of the Nation.. in the same way Uma Bharatis intent might have been to show Indian pride(I highly doubt that ) but it clashes with the religious beleifs of the Muslims.



What I mean is that the Way Uma Bharati stormed the Idgah and raised the flag only shows that she is promoting self interest under the garb of nationalism exactly how the Mullah is promoting his personal interest under the garb of religion.



Both of them need to be shown the door!

[CtrlAltDel]

I treat that with the same contempt I have for Uma Bharati trying to raise the Indian flag in the Idgah at Hubli....What I mean is that the Way Uma Bharati stormed the Idgah and raised the flag ...

*ahem..* a small correction here, Badmash. That ground was called Idgah maidan sure, but it was no Idgah. Muslims were offering namaaz there twice a year and for the rest of the year it was used for fairs, exhibitions, sports meets etc.



it was a congress election stunt that caused all the trouble and BJP cashed in on it in their own way.......anyway a few years ago, the problems solved itself when some muslim citizens of the city took the matter away from politicians and hoisted the flag there themselves.



in the previous page i have given a detailed account of what exactly the issue is all about....its nothing to do with religion or national pride....just pure petty politics.

[asli_badmash]

I treat that with the same contempt I have for Uma Bharati trying to raise the Indian flag in the Idgah at Hubli....What I mean is that the Way Uma Bharati stormed the Idgah and raised the flag ...

*ahem..* a small correction here, Badmash. That ground was called Idgah maidan sure, but it was no Idgah. Muslims were offering namaaz there twice a year and for the rest of the year it was used for fairs, exhibitions, sports meets etc.

it was a congress election stunt that caused all the trouble and BJP cashed in on it in their own way.......anyway a few years ago, the problems solved itself when some muslim citizens of the city took the matter away from politicians and hoisted the flag there themselves.

in the previous page i have given a detailed account of what exactly the issue is all about....its nothing to do with religion or national pride....just pure petty politics.

OK.. Thanks CAD for the correction. I take it back.. Maybe my analogy was flawed. I had little information about the Idgah Maidan thing and I hadnt done my homework.



But my point being Mullah's or Uma Bharati's will do anything for personal gains. In such a scene the Indians have to be well informed and not led astray by the false claims. The same goes for the national anthem.

[DQ]

Womaniser !!! Sounds familiar, when discussing the Nizam too, the only thing that was affecting most of the people there was that he was a womaniser ???
Well will start a new post on this topic Womanising!!

he he he, Was any woman in your family involved in one of his relationship, that it affects you so much. ? he he he

all this while u kept saying "dont get personal" and now u tried to make fun of my family to defend that Ra*ist Womaniser... you may not respect women but I do. so i guess your sexist nature prevents you from honoring Vande Mataram.. u wuldnt bow to anything female, even if it was your mother.

why are you defending the nizam like he was your dad/grand-dad? or maybe he is!!! your mom must have been one of his many illegal "wives".

go look for ur dad nizam in the by-lanes of charminar.

He he typical racist comment. (By Lanes of Charminar or was it King Koti ?). Get your facts right again.



Respect !!!

Lolz When an allegation comes to you, you demand respect the other way round you can slander anybody ???



Yes I still do beleive shouldn't get personal.

The earlier comment was to remind you that we are living in a Real world.

Don't take advantage when others are not getting personal.

Dont force me to, else you will shudder looking at any women (be it your mother) from that post on



Whats with 2 IDs mate, typical Hydi dedh hushaari ? HP and Rainmaker ?

[DQ]

Who the F***k is ZC.



This is the third thread where you guys seriously beleives I am ZC.



Asli is another one who passionately wants to link me up ta ZC.



Again goes on to se what a pre presumed world you guys live in.



As far as me arguing that will go on until Pigs Fly

[asli_badmash]

Asli is another one who passionately wants to link me up ta ZC.

DQ I said I dont think you are ZC in the thread DQ=ZC???. You think like ZC but I dont think you are ZC. Thats what I told. Samjhe...

[akhilis2cool]

Asli is another one who passionately wants to link me up ta ZC.

DQ I said I dont think you are ZC in the thread DQ=ZC???. You think like ZC but I dont think you are ZC. Thats what I told. Samjhe...

i think he will argue that aswell!!

[DQ]

Asli is another one who passionately wants to link me up ta ZC.

DQ I said I dont think you are ZC in the thread DQ=ZC???. You think like ZC but I dont think you are ZC. Thats what I told. Samjhe...

i think he will argue that aswell!!

As far as me arguing that will go on until Pigs Fly





But yea they are on facts not absurdities . And that answers it. Asli now tells me I am not ZC so others please refer ZC

[DQ]

oops typ err Refer Asli, hes got the facts about ZC right.

[asli_badmash]

oops typ err Refer Asli, hes got the facts about ZC right.

Technically.. It was CAD who had the facts right.. I just said I agree with him on this issue.



BTW; Even If you are not ZC.. you need serious help. Go to a Shrink or something... or just get laid a few times; maybe that will help. I doubt it though... cause even when you are getting laid you will argue.

[Habitual Perfectionist]

I am sure we are not in dispute of the meaning of the word "Translation".

I guess we are. I didn't mean translation literally. I meant it more in spirit.

[asli_badmash]

I am sure we are not in dispute of the meaning of the word "Translation".

I guess we are. I didn't mean translation literally. I meant it more in spirit.

At the risk of sounding like DQ... Explain how in spirit is the Indian Anthem a translation of the British. If the Indian anthem is a tranlation of the british in spirit or otherwise.. there should be some proof to that in the words. Maybe you can show me how...



I am sure you wrote that somewhere in the thread, I could have gone throught that but much of the discussion is DQfied. I am sure you will agree..



Can you please summarize your "translation in the spirit" claim with respect to the Anthem translation's I cut-paste above.

[CtrlAltDel]

well...the Uma Bharati's Hubli case has fizzled out....

good sense seems to have dawned on Congress finally and they have withdrawn the case against her.......they musta read my post

[rainmaker]

He he typical racist comment.

how can i be racist when i dont know what race u belong to? i dont even know for sure if you're remotely human

(By Lanes of Charminar or was it King Koti ?). Get your facts right again.

you would know better, Obviously!

Respect !!!

do u forget that word when You post?

Dont force me to, else you will shudder looking at any women (be it your mother) from that post on

what does that gibberish mean? you sound like a talebani who escaped the bombing... and is now bombing these DB's as revenge. spare us!!

[Habitual Perfectionist]

to AB :



Since I said its in spirit and not literal, its really difficult to point out the words. But it has to do something with the shore to shore (Punjab Sindh Gujarat Maratha...Dravida Utkala Banga); the blessings and prayers. Just a nagging similarity to my mind.



This is not the result of any propoganda as this is something I've been feeling since as early as standard 7th. I even spoke about this in our school assembly once and had to undergo a 5 hour ragda as a punishment. But somehow I've always felt this way.



Let me add this too on top of everything I've said here. These are just my personal beliefs and I never try to force them on others. I provide all respect due to the anthem as and when required. I'm terribly passionate about the country and its symbols and I don't think I need to prove this to anyone. Maybe I'm wrong with this belief about the anthem but then thats just how the thought stuck on to me. Maybe the likes of you could even think me out of this - believe me, I've never had a discussion with anyone about this till now.



P.S. : DQ....please don't respond to this as this post was meant for sane heads only.

[asli_badmash]

it was a congress election stunt that caused all the trouble and BJP cashed in on it in their own way.......anyway a few years ago, the problems solved itself when some muslim citizens of the city took the matter away from politicians and hoisted the flag there themselves.

Did you read yesterdays center page article by M.J.Akbar and how Congress is bunling, making mistakes in the politics. I see the picture clearly now. Sonia is a power hungry Lady. All she wants to do is hold on to the seat of power....



I always thought Manmohan Singh was good man, As a PM I dont think he is doing a great job. Also, I dont think Sonia can be a Indira Gandhi. To be the PM you have to be a leader, a person who can walk the straight and narrow yet when time comes be able to cut throats. I think Sonia's main motive is to hold the Gaddi till either Rahul or Priyanka can become able enough to take it over.



Did you see that Rahul Gandhi speak.. he is such a pussy man. No calrity of thought or words. I only hope Indians see the motives of Sonia for what they are... Kisse ke baap ki jagir nahin hai India. Specially of foreigners who have discovered Indianess just now. :X



I would have liked to see Rajesh Pilot or Scindia on the seat. These people are deserving people who could have made good leaders.. but sadly they were CUT DOWN in mafia(Italian) style killing. Thu.. Thu.. It reeks of conspiracy... Conviniently two good leaders of the Party were eliminated when Sonia was consolidating the party.



1. Why was there no report released about how the Scindia's plane crash.

2. Was there an investigation about the accident of Rajesh Pilot.



None... WHY ???

[asli_badmash]

Here is what I found...



1. I read about the genesis of National Anthem story and I talked to a couple of Old timers. They seem to agree that Jana-ganna was introduced as a song in Praise of King George.. they say in actaulity it was praising GOD. Many a debates have been held about this and all the time the conclusion has been that Jana-ganna didnt and cannot refer to the King.



2. People say it was adopted as National Anthem in 1911. It was sung as a welcome to the king at INC meeting in Calcutta. But that doesnt mean it was for the King.. read the translation clearly. I dont think Tagore (knowing the man he was) would have said anything like that about any Man. Those words can only be attributed to God. In some perverted way.. the words can be misconstrued to be praise of King George. But in reality they aint.



3. Jana-gana was adopted as a national anthem in 1950 under the watchfull eye of great leaders like C.Rajgopal Chari, Dr.Rajendra Prasad and other stalwarts who's intentions cannot be questioned. They would die before they would adopt a song praising the King as National Anthem of a Free India.



A little about Tagore..



Rabindranath Tagore (1861-1941) was the youngest son of Debendranath Tagore, born in Calcutta. He was educated at home; and although at seventeen he was sent to England for formal schooling, he did not finish his studies there. Tagore participated in the Indian nationalist movement in his own visionary way; and Gandhi, the political father of modern India, was his devoted friend. He won the 1913 Nobel Prize for Literature. Tagore was knighted by the ruling British Government in 1915, but within a few years he resigned the honor as a protest against British policies in India.



About Tagore -

http://www.nobel.se/literature/laureates/1913/tagore-bio.html

http://www.nobel.se/literature/articles/sen/index.html



4. If he declined the knighthood (in 1915, four or so years after writing the Jana-gana song) in favour of his principles and his beleif in India's freedom... how can he be accused of writing a song praising the King to be the dispenser of Indias Destiny. That is contradictory to his actions and beleifs. In the life time of Gurudev(Died 1941) the song wasnt even adopted as national anthem of Free India.



Somehow I think Jana-gana song is not refering to the British king or the British national anthem in any way. Thats what I think... anyway read the story for yourself and you decide. Try to analyze the big picture and you will see clearly through the whole thing.



This link will tell you why the controversy exists today...



http://www.freeindia.org/vmataram/genesis_of_janaganamana.shtml



Hope this helped!

[akhilis2cool]

good work AB

[DQ]

Here is what I found...

1. I read about the genesis of National Anthem story and I talked to a couple of Old timers. They seem to agree that Jana-ganna was introduced as a song in Praise of King George.. they say in actaulity it was praising GOD. Many a debates have been held about this and all the time the conclusion has been that Jana-ganna didnt and cannot refer to the King.

2. People say it was adopted as National Anthem in 1911. It was sung as a welcome to the king at INC meeting in Calcutta. But that doesnt mean it was for the King.. read the translation clearly. I dont think Tagore (knowing the man he was) would have said anything like that about any Man. Those words can only be attributed to God. In some perverted way.. the words can be misconstrued to be praise of King George. But in reality they aint.

3. Jana-gana was adopted as a national anthem in 1950 under the watchfull eye of great leaders like C.Rajgopal Chari, Dr.Rajendra Prasad and other stalwarts who's intentions cannot be questioned. They would die before they would adopt a song praising the King as National Anthem of a Free India.

A little about Tagore..

Rabindranath Tagore (1861-1941) was the youngest son of Debendranath Tagore, born in Calcutta. He was educated at home; and although at seventeen he was sent to England for formal schooling, he did not finish his studies there. Tagore participated in the Indian nationalist movement in his own visionary way; and Gandhi, the political father of modern India, was his devoted friend. He won the 1913 Nobel Prize for Literature. Tagore was knighted by the ruling British Government in 1915, but within a few years he resigned the honor as a protest against British policies in India.

About Tagore -
http://www.nobel.se/literature/laureates/1913/tagore-bio.html
http://www.nobel.se/literature/articles/sen/index.html

4. If he declined the knighthood (in 1915, four or so years after writing the Jana-gana song) in favour of his principles and his beleif in India's freedom... how can he be accused of writing a song praising the King to be the dispenser of Indias Destiny. That is contradictory to his actions and beleifs. In the life time of Gurudev(Died 1941) the song wasnt even adopted as national anthem of Free India.

Somehow I think Jana-gana song is not refering to the British king or the British national anthem in any way. Thats what I think... anyway read the story for yourself and you decide. Try to analyze the big picture and you will see clearly through the whole thing.

This link will tell you why the controversy exists today...

http://www.freeindia.org/vmataram/genesis_of_janaganamana.shtml

Hope this helped!

Exactly what I have been penning all the time, but yea not in this methodical manner.



I guess the above sorts all doubts. (Hate to agree again but good work )



Well if it hasn't helped then "So called Rashtra vadi" stands true.



It is not in bad taste but a truth that Indians need to accept. We have this upcomming trend of "So called Rastra Vadis" whose intentions are questionable and are much more dangerous to India then any other threat.

[akhilis2cool]

*opens the windows of his office and checks out which side the sun rose from today*

[DQ]

*opens the windows of his office and checks out which side the sun rose from today*

Kitne bar kaha, let the fresh air flow, keep the windows open dude.

Aab khol ne ki jaroorat nahi padthi naa

[akhilis2cool]

*opens the windows of his office and checks out which side the sun rose from today*

Kitne bar kaha, let the fresh air flow, keep the windows open dude.
Aab khol ne ki jaroorat nahi padthi naa

thats more like it. The sun obviously rose from east as usual.

[DQ]

*opens the windows of his office and checks out which side the sun rose from today*

Kitne bar kaha, let the fresh air flow, keep the windows open dude.
Aab khol ne ki jaroorat nahi padthi naa

thats more like it. The sun obviously rose from east as usual.

Will let all of you know whan Pigs do Fly

[akhilis2cool]

*opens the windows of his office and checks out which side the sun rose from today*

Kitne bar kaha, let the fresh air flow, keep the windows open dude.
Aab khol ne ki jaroorat nahi padthi naa

thats more like it. The sun obviously rose from east as usual.

Will let all of you know whan Pigs do Fly

er... i hope u have a laptop u can carry while flying.