Taking Relegion too Seriously

[Lucifer]

MM, let me tell you why Manu in Manu Smriti divided the society into different varnas.



It was not done with any intent of discriminating people. It was the need of the hour. Not everyone can be the king. You also need subjects. Not everyone can lead. You need followers. Similarly, not everyone could perform Vedic rituals or fight or trade or do the other chores as manufacturing of goods.



Hence, the varnas. When Manu created them there was no concept of inheritance. Purely on ability and flair a person was accepted into the varna. It was more of a profession. I am good at business so I join a Business Company. Someone might have the flair for warfare and he becomes a warrior. The caste connotations came with time.



Later the concept of inheritance came into the picture. A cobbler's son had to be a cobbler and a warrior's son had to be a warrior. This was not what Manu had envisioned. It is similar to what Dr. BR Ambedkar had thought when he had proposed reservations. Had he foreseen the blatant abuse of the concept, I am damn certain he would never have proposed it.



My point is, do not fault the system. The fault lies with us - people who misinterpret it.

[CtrlAltDel]

Indiference of like minded and open people like your self (Not me I have been named Bigot, Mullah etc etc..) Helps in Al Qaida etc etc take predence.

:? if i dont take religion seriously, how does that make me indiferent? i think it makes me think objectively without prejudice

There again we err, if you follow Al Qaida, its a complete political process and has nothing to do with relegion at all.
The world powers invested time and energy, to build AL Qaida and its thought process. Muslims were suffering under this thought process(infiltration) for atleast the past 2 decades, the world is facing them now.

sorry...tho these things are started by america, it has everything to do with the terrorists' religious beliefs. america has just played on these beliefs in the past and is now paying for it.

I would have asked like waht and you continue citing this example.

i havent studied all religions, so i dont know. but since religious rules were framed 100s of years ago, many of them obviously wont fit in the current scenario. thats common sense.

Hinduism does not frown on re marriage at all, it again was a political scenario. I have never heard from any hindu scholar that Widow re marriage is a taboo.

Now i will have to ask you as to what ?

here is the problem. hinduism has no founder. it was a way of life with certain rules accepted by society. these rules forbade widow remarriage. there were many such rules that came and went, like Sati, Caste System etc.

of corz here evolution was easy since there is no concept of a common law that all are forced to follow.

[CtrlAltDel]

do not fault the system. The fault lies with us - people who misinterpret it.

exactly my point too....and i believe that misinterpretation is possible coz ppl take religion too seriously than is required. the sentiments like "dharam ke liye jaan dedoonga" and similar things are nonsense and lead to all trouble. Life is more important than religion. religion is only a tool to make our life better and to become a better human being.



be honest, provide for your family, help those who need it, dont hurt others intentionally, have fun, chill out, thank your God now and then.....why wont God be happy with you? isnt that what all religions ultimately say? all the formalities n rituals are man-made, so can be discarded at will.

[marko]

DQ, what do you mean by people not taking religion "seriously"? if you had said that the cause of all the worlds problems is secularisation then maybe it would be possible to take your argument "seriously".



anyhow, seriously is seriously subjective. For one person, seriously might mean going to temple/mass/church/synagog/mosque/etc every day of the week and saying prayers, for another it might mean treating people with respect. Who are you to judge which person is taking the religion seriously?

[CtrlAltDel]

anyhow, seriously is seriously subjective. For one person, seriously might mean going to temple/mass/church/synagog/mosque/etc every day of the week and saying prayers, for another it might mean treating people with respect. Who are you to judge which person is taking the religion seriously?

for me "taking religion seriously" stands for: reading to much into the letter or holy books without going into the spirit, letting religion rule over daily activities and ideas over ruling rational thinking, firmly believing ones own religion is superior to others', hating people who dont follow rules laid down in religious texts (esp co-religionists), putting religion before other people-jobs-country etc...

[marko]

for me "taking religion seriously" stands for: reading to much into the letter or holy books without going into the spirit, letting religion rule over daily activities and ideas over ruling rational thinking, firmly believing ones own religion is superior to others', hating people who dont follow rules laid down in religious texts (esp co-religionists), putting religion before other people-jobs-country etc...

me too, but that's obviously not what he meant by it.

[CtrlAltDel]

for me "taking religion seriously" stands for: reading to much into the letter or holy books without going into the spirit, letting religion rule over daily activities and ideas over ruling rational thinking, firmly believing ones own religion is superior to others', hating people who dont follow rules laid down in religious texts (esp co-religionists), putting religion before other people-jobs-country etc...

me too, but that's obviously not what he meant by it.

oh that! he was reacting to my statement in some other thread where i mentioned the negative effect of taking religion too seriously. (look at the thread named something like "Niggers, Jews, Poofs, ......". its abt hate).

according to DQ, the world's problems r caused by ppl NOT taking religion seriously...i am stating the opposite view.

[CtrlAltDel]

[(look at the thread named something like "Niggers, Jews, Poofs, ......".

sorry...its "nigs, japs, goras," etc and its in NRI forum

[marko]

me too, but that's obviously not what he meant by it.

oh that! he was reacting to my statement in some other thread where i mentioned the negative effect of taking religion too seriously. (look at the thread named something like "Niggers, Jews, Poofs, ......". its abt hate).
according to DQ, the world's problems r caused by ppl NOT taking religion seriously...i am stating the opposite view.[/quote]





ok, I don't really get what either of you mean by taking religion seriously. I'm an atheist, however I believe i take religion seriously; from a sociological and historical point of view it has shaped the world, and will continue to do so as long as there is humans on it.

[Lucifer]

I would not go as far as Marko by saying that I am an atheist. God has to exist. How else do you explain Sushmita Sen? Man! Sometimes I think God seriously over-reaches himself.



That aside, I do believe there is God but I certainly do not believe that he would want us to kill in his name - even if the killing is for preserving that very name, if you get my drift.

[marko]

I would not go as far as Marko

I don't see it as going "far". I can't help what i believe. I'm sorry i brought it up now, i just wanted to show that despite the fact that i don't subscribe to a religion i take them all seriously.

[marko]

How else do you explain Sushmita Sen? Man!

4 billion years of evolution

[Lucifer]

Maro, chill! I meant that in a humourous vein. Half of what I say does not mean anything and the other half makes no sense.

[Lucifer]

How else do you explain Sushmita Sen? Man!

4 billion years of evolution

Then why don't we have more of her tribe?



BTW, Marko, you do know who Sushmita Sen is, right? She is what I would call the perfect woman - beauty, intelligence, and grace all embodied in one woman.

[marko]

BTW, Marko, you do know who Sushmita Sen is, right? She is what I would call the perfect woman - beauty, intelligence, and grace all embodied in one woman.

i did a search after your first post, so i do now. The quote that sticks in my mind is "What touches me most? My underwear."

[rock_26iin]

marko saying that he was an athiest reminded me of a small story which i wud like to pen down here:



A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard

trimmed. As the barber began to work, they began to have a good

conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: "I

don't believe that God exists." "Why do you say that?" asked the

customer. "Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God

doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving a God who would allow all of these things."The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.



The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.

Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with

long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked

dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber: "You know what? Barbers do not exist." "How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber. "I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!" "No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside."

"Ah, but barbers DO exist! " answered the barber. " What happens, is, people do not come to me. " "Exactly!"- affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! What happens, is, people don't go to Him and do not look for Him. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

[rock_26iin]

no offence meant, Marko, just some story stuck in a corner of me pea-sized brain

[CtrlAltDel]

learnt that ^^^ in Moral Science class today?

[rock_26iin]

learnt that ^^^ in Moral Science class today?

no read it in a book nearly 3 1/2 yrs ago, dont remember which book though

[marko]

no offence meant, Marko, just some story stuck in a corner of me pea-sized brain

it's ok, i won't take it too seriously

[rock_26iin]

no offence meant, Marko, just some story stuck in a corner of me pea-sized brain

it's ok, i won't take it too seriously

cool



a little rant of mine pertaining to the topic,



Religion is just supposed to be a guide in our life. It is the small and the big morals that religion tell us that we are supposed to follow



If u talk of religious scripts then ppl are supposed to understand the moral of the story being delivered and use them as guiding principles for their life, only guiding, they cannot allow their entire life to be completely lived on the basis of these beliefs. There are many instances in these scriptures which are just passed of as irrelevant to our daily life but actually do have a scientific basis.



For e.g., in the Ramayana, it is said that we are not supposed to sleep with our head facing the North. To some people, this may mean nothing but from scientific research it has been found that sleeping with your head pointing to the North is harmful for ure brain. Since the brain function on small electric currents, this magnetic field disrupts that current and the brain stays slightly confused for an instant (less than a nanosecond). However, major exposure to this can lead to harmful damage of the brain.



^^This is the type of guide religion is supposed to be. It is supposed to give us advice on moral/social/health etc. therefore i say that religion should only be a guide and not rule over the life of a person

[oneminutecooler]

a little rant of mine pertaining to the topic

Lol. So your mind is under-developed right rock?



Lol. Sorry guys, just a little, ummm..."inside joke" between me and rock.



Anyways, I really don't want to get involved in this topic, but I just want to say that, I think the main predicament, when dealing with scriptures, is taking things too literally.....I think it's more about reading between the lines. The problem is that, people interpret things differently and that is where the real problem begins.



That's just a little paragraph on some of my opinion.

[Hitch-hiker]

Anyways, I really don't want to get involved in this topic, but I just want to say that, I think the main predicament, when dealing with scriptures, is taking things too literally.....I think it's more about reading between the lines. The problem is that, people interpret things differently and that is where the real problem begins.

i dont think taking religion seriously is a problem at all. Even taking things literally as provided in whichevr religious scriptures one subscribes to should not be a problem.

As long as ppl understand that each one has a right to take ones own understanding & interpretation from religious texts & subscribe / adhere to whatever religious text they identify with - There should be no problem at all. Sadly, we force others around us to subscribe to our view-point, our beliefs on wht the religion says etc -- This is where the problem starts. While discussing different view-points & interpretations is good, forcing it onto others is very wrong.

[Scorpion's Sting]

a little rant of mine pertaining to the topic

Lol. So your mind is under-developed right rock?

Lol. Sorry guys, just a little, ummm..."inside joke" between me and rock.

OMC, i can assure u that that isnt an inside joke. Everybody here(well, almost anyway) knows how under-developed my brain is. What say, CAD?

[Kenny]

Find out.

Demand for legalisation of Same sex marriages.
Organisation in India to get equal rights for gays.
The Muslim Lesbian organisation of North America.

Find out....

I really don't see anything wrong with any of the above. Please explain what you do.

Life is more important than religion.

Well said, CAD.





I believe that as long as people are dutiful, it doesn't really matter which religion they follow. Yes, religion helps in shaping society, but problems do arise when diff religions say different things... take inspiration from colonies of ants/bees which work together perfectly, not hindered by religion.



I know human societies are supposed to be more advanced etc, etc... just stating a pt, not comparing level of evolution!



Rock, that was a good story. I happen to be an Atheist too, BTW.