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Indian Citizenship

by CtrlAltDel » Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:40 pm

i like some information about the following situation, from people who are familiar with the procedure:



a relative of mine has decided to marry his foreign girlfriend and the girl wants to take Indian Citizenship, become a Hindu and settle down in India with him.



according to Indian Citizenship laws, spouses of Indian citizens are elegible to become Indian citizens if they get an Indian Residential Permit and stay in India for five years.



this means that they have to be married first. but as per Indian Marriage Laws, the govt. cannot register marriages between an Indian and foreigner.



so cud anybody explain what all has to be done to



1) get legally married



2) live in India for 5 years to citizenship



i need info on loopholes, procedures etc that mite help or hinder this process.





Disclaimer: This is not abt me plz...:roll:...i am happily married, and with a son too...:)
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by akhilis2cool » Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:00 pm

Ask Sonia Gandhi 8)
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by Mayavi Morpheus » Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:02 pm

Try this link ctrl bhai.



http://mha.nic.in/citi.htm



apparently the person has to be married to an Indian and live in India for 5 years to obtain citizenship.
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Re: Indian Citizenship

by malakpetmasala » Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:03 pm

CtrlAltDel wrote:i like some information about the following situation, from people who are familiar with the procedure:

a relative of mine has decided to marry his foreign girlfriend and the girl wants to take Indian Citizenship, become a Hindu and settle down in India with him.

according to Indian Citizenship laws, spouses of Indian citizens are elegible to become Indian citizens if they get an Indian Residential Permit and stay in India for five years.

this means that they have to be married first. but as per Indian Marriage Laws, the govt. cannot register marriages between an Indian and foreigner.

so cud anybody explain what all has to be done to

1) get legally married

2) live in India for 5 years to citizenship

i need info on loopholes, procedures etc that mite help or hinder this process.


Disclaimer: This is not abt me plz...:roll:...i am happily married, and with a son too...:)




are u sure that according to the indian marriage act, marriages between Indians and foreigners are not allowed to be regestered?
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Re: Indian Citizenship

by CtrlAltDel » Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:22 pm

malakpetmasala wrote:are u sure that according to the indian marriage act, marriages between Indians and foreigners are not allowed to be regestered?
..thats what a Marriage Registrar told me when i asked him...tho some say its possible in Delhi.



MM, i found info in that site abt citizenship, but i want to know abt what kind of marriage wud be considered legal in order to apply for Residence Permit that leads to a citizenship.
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Re: Indian Citizenship

by malakpetmasala » Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:32 pm

CtrlAltDel wrote:
malakpetmasala wrote:are u sure that according to the indian marriage act, marriages between Indians and foreigners are not allowed to be regestered?
..thats what a Marriage Registrar told me when i asked him...tho some say its possible in Delhi.

MM, i found info in that site abt citizenship, but i want to know abt what kind of marriage wud be considered legal in order to apply for Residence Permit that leads to a citizenship.




from what i know, de facto relationships would not be considered for registration, but according to hindu marriage law, a hindu woman or a hindu man can marry anyone of his/her choice (given the exceptions, of which foreign origin is not a part of) and all marriages performed accordingly can be regestered.

otherwise, how would have sonia gandhi ever been an Indian citizen?
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Re: Indian Citizenship

by CtrlAltDel » Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:37 pm

malakpetmasala wrote:from what i know, de facto relationships would not be considered for registration, but according to hindu marriage law, a hindu woman or a hindu man can marry anyone of his/her choice (given the exceptions, of which foreign origin is not a part of) and all marriages performed accordingly can be regestered.
otherwise, how would have sonia gandhi ever been an Indian citizen?
Sonia was elegible for Indian citizenship 5 years after her marriage but she had refused to take it up and preferred to renew her Residence Permit every 5 years till Rajiv became PM and she had no excuse left.



the info i want is whether a hindu marriage without govt. registration is elegible for the lady in question to apply for Indian Residence Permit...? or is there any other way?
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Re: Indian Citizenship

by malakpetmasala » Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:46 pm

CtrlAltDel wrote:
malakpetmasala wrote:from what i know, de facto relationships would not be considered for registration, but according to hindu marriage law, a hindu woman or a hindu man can marry anyone of his/her choice (given the exceptions, of which foreign origin is not a part of) and all marriages performed accordingly can be regestered.
otherwise, how would have sonia gandhi ever been an Indian citizen?
Sonia was elegible for Indian citizenship 5 years after her marriage but she had refused to take it up and preferred to renew her Residence Permit every 5 years till Rajiv became PM and she had no excuse left.

the info i want is whether a hindu marriage without govt. registration is elegible for the lady in question to apply for Indian Residence Permit...? or is there any other way?




Na, from what I know, it has to be regestered, ddoes nt matter which country it is regestered in, but it has to be regestered to get a residency permit.
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by Lucifer » Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:53 pm

I think Malakie is right. The marriage just has to be registered. And, then she has to live in the country for five years and apply for Indian citizenship.
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Re: Indian Citizenship

by Fiddler » Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:55 am

CtrlAltDel wrote: but as per Indian Marriage Laws, the govt. cannot register marriages between an Indian and foreigner.


Not true. My Mom, who's German, married my Dad on Delhi without a problem. More recently, my Brother, also a German citizen, got married to my Sister-in-law in Chennai and the marriage was registered both there and in Hyd. The registrar in Hyd whom the visited is in Ameerpet.
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Re: Indian Citizenship

by CtrlAltDel » Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:56 pm

Fiddler wrote:My Mom, who's German, married my Dad on Delhi without a problem. More recently, my Brother, also a German citizen, got married to my Sister-in-law in Chennai and the marriage was registered both there and in Hyd. The registrar in Hyd whom the visited is in Ameerpet.
hey thanX! the subregistrar in Cantonment area whom i contacted flatly said that this marriage cannot be registered. dunno why he said that....can u gimme details of the procedure involved and what documents are required from the girl, who is not an Indian?
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Re: Indian Citizenship

by DQ » Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:36 am

CtrlAltDel wrote:hey thanX! the subregistrar in Cantonment area whom i contacted flatly said that this marriage cannot be registered. dunno why he said that....can u gimme details of the procedure involved and what documents are required from the girl, who is not an Indian?




What was your Kochan to the sub registrar ?



As registration of marriages is never a problem.



1. If the marriage was performed as a ceremony, you need to get it registered with appropriate proofs.



2. If you need to register a marriage, there should be no problem. If you are registered in any other country its no problem at all.



3. If you want to register in India. You need to have your facts right, like divorce certificate if you are a divorcee.



Nationality is a question but no Hindarance.



Country of domicile comes into question, for which you need to follow these steps (this agin if both parties are not Hindus, same caste)

(a) Notice to be given by the bride and bridegroom to the Marriage Officer of the district in which one of them had been residing immediately previous to the notice for atleast 30 days.



(b) Marriage Officer records the notice to a conspicuous part of his office and sends a copy to the Marriage Officer of the District in which the party giving the notice has permanent residence and it would also be affixed by the officer in his office.



(c) 30 days time is given for any person to raise any objections to the intended marriage.



(d) From the date of receipt of any objections within 30 days, the Marriage Officer should enquire into the objections.



(e) If the objection is upheld, either party to the intended marriage may appeal to the District Court whose decision shall be final.



(f) In case there is no objection or the objection is rejected, the parties with 3 witnesses sign in presence of the Marriage Officer declarations to the effect that they are unmarried and are not related within prohibited degrees and have completed 21 years (Husband) and 18 years (Wife).



(g) The marriage is therefore solemnized in any form which parties choose to adopt. The form must have the following declaration by each party to the effect; "I take thee to be my lawful wife (or husband)." The parties and 3 witnesses then sign the certificate of solemnization. This certificate is conclusive certificate of solemnization.



(h) The solemnization should be completed within 3 months from the date of notice and otherwise the notice lapses and a new notice will have to be issued. Civil Marriage by Registration: The marriage under the special Marriage Act is a civil marriage by registration.





The only problem may arise if both parties are of foreign origin, but again an affidavit or a solemn pledge may help here too.



Visit any renown matrimonial site and legal details are listed there.



http://www.seasonsindia.com/marriage/hindu_sea.htm



Yes your question is valid
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Hope this explains

by DQ » Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:44 am

CONDITIONS NECESSARY FOR A MARRIAGE





The following conditions are necessary :



That neither party has a spouse living at the time of marriage.



That neither party is incapable of giving a valid consent to the marriage due to unsoundness of mind.



That neither party has been suffering from mental disorder of such a kind or to such an extent as to be unfit for marriage and the procreation of children.



That neither party has been subject to recurrent attacks of epilepsy or insanity.



That the bridegroom has completed the age of 21 years and the bride the age of 18 years at the time of marriage.



That the parties are not within the degrees of prohibited relationship. However where a custom governing at least one of the parties permits a marriage between them, such marriage may be solemnized nonwithstanding that they are within the degrees of prohibited relationship as follows :







**degrees of prohibited relationship-





A man and any of the person mentioned in part I of the first schedule and a woman and any of the person mentioned in Part II of the said schedule are with in the degrees of prohibited relationship.



Relationship includes-

a. relationship by half or uterine blood as well as by fool blood;

b. illegitimate blood relationship as well as legitimate;

c. relationship by adoption as well as by blood;

and all terms of relationship in this Act shell be construed accordingly.



"Full blood" and "half blood"- Two person are said to be related to each other by full blood when they are descended from the common ancestor but by different wives.



"Uterine blood"- Two persons are said to be related to each other by uterine blood when they are descended from a common ancestress but by different husbands.



"Ancester" includes the father and "ancestress" the mother;







THE FIRST SCHEDULE

[see section 2 (b) "Degree of prohibited relationship"]



PART I



1. Mother

2. Father's widow (step-mother).

3. Mother's mother

4. Mother's father's widow (step grand-mother).

5. Mother's mother's mother.

6. Mother's mother's father's widow.

7. Mother's father's mother.

8. Mother's father's father's widow (step great grand-mother.)

9. Father's mother.

10. Father's father's widow (step grand-mother).

11. Father's mother's mother.

12. Father's mother's father's widow (step great grand-mother).

13. Father's father's mother.

14. Father's father's father's widow (step great grand-mother).

15. Daughter.

16. Son's widow.

17. Daughter's daughter.

18. Daughter's son's widow.

19. Son's daughter.

20. Son's son's widow.

21. Daughter's daughter's Daughter.

22. Daughter's daughter's son's widow.

23. Daughter's son's daughter.

24. Daughter's son's son's widow.

25. Son's daughter's daughter.

26. Son's daughter's son's widow.

27. Son's son's daughter.

28. Sister.

29. Sister's daughter.

30. Brother's daughter.

31. Mother's sister.

32. Father's sister

33. Father's sister.

34. Father's brother's daughter.

35. Father's sister's daughter.

36. Mother's sister's daughter.

37. Mother's brother's daughter.



For the purpose of this part, widow includes a divorced wife.





PART II



1. Father.

2. Mother's husband(step father).

3. Father's father.

4. Father's mother's husband(step grand-father).

5. Father's father's father.

6. Father's father's mother's husband(step great grand-father).

7. Father's mother's father.

8. Father's mother's mother's husband (step great grand-father).

9. Mother's father.

10. Mother's mother's husband (step grand-father).

11. Mother's father's father.

12. Mother's father's mother's husband.

13. Mother's mother's father.

14. Mother's mother's mother's husband.

15. Son.

16. Daughter's husband.

17. Son's son.

18. Son's daughter's husband.

19. Daughter's son.

20. Daughter's daughter's husband.

21. Son's son's son.

22. Son's son's daughter's husband.

23. Son's daughter's son.

24. Son's daughter's daughter's husband.

25. Daughter's son's son.

26. Daughter's son's daughter's husband.

27. Daughter's daughter's son.

28. Daughter's daughter's daughter's husband.

29. Brother.

30. Brother's son.

31. Sister's son.

32. Mother's brother.

33. Father's brother.

34. Father's brother's son.

35. Father's sister's son.

36. Mother's sister's son.

37. Mother's brother's son.





7. That where the marriage is solemnized in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, both the parties are citizens of India domiciled in the territories to which this Act extends.
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Complete link to Hindu marriage law

by DQ » Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:48 am

Tu jo sachchi hai larazti kyun hai aye zaban bol de darti kyun hai

qalb men khowfe khuda hai tere phir zuban sach se jhijhakti kyun hai


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Not spamming

by DQ » Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:52 am

Another link...for any furthur kochans arising



http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony/expert.php
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Re: Indian Citizenship

by CtrlAltDel » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:48 pm

thanX a lot for the information DQ...



DQ wrote:What was your Kochan to the sub registrar ?
i just asked the sub-registrar what are the procedures to register a mariage between an Indian and a foreign girl. he replied that he it cant be done...:?



now i know what to ask him the second time...i am contacting a lawyer too.
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Re: Hope this explains

by CtrlAltDel » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:53 pm

DQ wrote:"Degree of prohibited relationship"

PART I
.
.
.
.


PART II
.
.
.
.
WOW! that list covers almost all relatives....



btw in south india, its common for ppl to marry cousins n uncles. are such marriages illegal...? if its so, few of my friends/acquaintances/neighbors are in trouble...:D
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by azazel » Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:07 pm

CtrlAltDel wrote:btw in south india, its common for ppl to marry uncles




:? hain?
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by CtrlAltDel » Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:31 pm

azazel wrote:
CtrlAltDel wrote:btw in south india, its common for ppl to marry uncles
:? hain?
yes its true...
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by azazel » Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:55 pm

like mama's/chacha's tht kinda deal?? :shock:
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by CtrlAltDel » Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:01 pm

azazel wrote:like mama's/chacha's tht kinda deal?? :shock:
its common for girls to marry their mamas (mother's brother)......and its not considered incest.....:roll:.....amazing but true...



not chachas tho...thats prohibited...



some cousins also marry...ie maternal cousins only
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by azazel » Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:12 pm

CtrlAltDel wrote:its common for girls to marry their mamas (mother's brother)......and its not considered incest.....:roll:.....amazing but true...
not chachas tho...thats prohibited...


:shock:

some cousins also marry...ie maternal cousins only




cousins me its ok.
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by Mayavi Morpheus » Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:24 am

azazel wrote:
CtrlAltDel wrote:its common for girls to marry their mamas (mother's brother)......and its not considered incest.....:roll:.....amazing but true...
not chachas tho...thats prohibited...

:shock:





Never heard of it? Its very common in Andhra, girls marrying their mothers brothers. Two of my mothers brothers married my aunts (mothers sisters) daughter because both were of same age. You see it so many old telugu movies, its kinda tradition.
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Incest

by DQ » Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:10 am

CtrlAltDel wrote:
azazel wrote:like mama's/chacha's tht kinda deal?? :shock:
its common for girls to marry their mamas (mother's brother)......and its not considered incest.....:roll:.....amazing but true...

not chachas tho...thats prohibited...

some cousins also marry...ie maternal cousins only




Buddy you are probably talking about Muslim Marriages. Here you need to differentiate. According to Indian Law

Hindu Marriage law (earlier in part 1 and 2, most realtionships are mother and father ruled out of question)

Arguable are these





If the relationship falls under this and you are a hindu the marriages are questionable.

If you know of such relationship you can ruin them by filing a suit



Sister

28. Sister.

29. Sister's daughter. ---- Mama (Does not include Step Daughter)

30. Brother's daughter. ---- Chacha



Aunt

31. Mother's sister. Should be in mothers category

32. Father's sister Should be in mothers category

33. Father's sister. Should be in mothers category



Cousin --- Now this is an arguable factor. Correct

34. Father's brother's daughter.

35. Father's sister's daughter.

36. Mother's sister's daughter.

37. Mother's brother's daughter.



Uncle

32. Mother's brother.

33. Father's brother.



Cousin

34. Father's brother's son.

35. Father's sister's son.

36. Mother's sister's son.

37. Mother's brother's son.



Muslim Law pertaining to marriages



1. ABSOLUTE INCAPACITY OR PROHIBITION:

a. Consanguinity

Consanguinity means blood relationship and bars a man from marrying:



His mother or grandmother how highsoever,



His daughter or grand-daughter how lowsoever,



His sister whether full, consanguine or uterine,



His niece or great niece how lowsoever, (Does not include step niece)



His aunt (fathers sister, mothers sister) or great aunt, how highsoever, whether paternal or maternal A marriage with a woman prohibited by reason of consanguinity is void. Issues from such marriage are illegitimate.



b. Affinity

Affinity prohibits a man from marrying:



His wife's mother or grand-mother how highsoever



His wife's daughter or grand-daughter how lowsoever



Wife of his father or paternal grand-father how highsoever



Wife of his son or son's son or daughter's son how lowsoever A marriage with a woman prohibited by reason of affinity is void.



The next is very important, some people suckle a child and forget in due course, if it is established at any stage this marriage is void.



Fosterage means when a woman other than its own mother has suckled a child under the age of two years, the woman becomes the foster-mother of the child. A man may not, for instance, marry his foster-mother or her daughter, or his foster sister.



EXCEPTIONS



Under the Sunni law, there are a few exceptions to the general rule of prohibition on the ground of fosterage and a valid marriage may be contracted with:



Sister's foster mother, or



Foster's sisters mother, or



Foster's sons sister, or



Foster brother's sister.



The Shia jurists place fosterage and consanguinity on the same footing and refuse to recognize the exception permitted by the Sunnis. The above mentioned prohibitions on account of 'consanguinity', 'affinity' or 'Fosterage' are absolute and the marriages contracted in contravention of these rules are void.



2. RELATIVE INCAPACITY OR PROHIBITION: Springs from cases which render the marriage invalid only so long as the cause which creates the bar exist. The moment it is removed, the incapacity ends and the marriage become valid and binding. The following are the cases:



a) Unlawful conjunction,



b) Polygamy, or marrying a fifth wife.



c) Absence of proper witnesses



d) Differences of religion



e) Woman undergoing IDDAT



a) Unlawful conjunction: means contemporaneously marrying two women so related to each other by consanguinity, affinity or fosterage, which they could not have lawfully intermarried with each other if they had been of different sexes. Thus a Muslim cannot marry two sisters, or an aunt and her niece.



Under the Shia Law, a Muslim may marry his wife's aunt, but he cannot marry his wife's niece without her permission. Marriage prohibited by reason of unlawful conjunction is void under Shia Law.



b) Polygamy or marrying a fifth wife: means plurality of wives, i.e. marrying a fifth wife. It is unlawful for a Mohammedan to have more wives than four.



A Muslim woman cannot marry more than one husband. If a woman marries a second husband, she is liable for bigamy under Sec.494, Indian Penal Code and the issues of such a marriage are illegitimate.



In India no Muslim marrying under or getting his marriage registered under The Special Marriage Act, 1954,can marry a second wife during the lifetime of his spouse.



c) Absence of proper witnesses: It is essential amongst the Sunnis that at least two male witnesses or one male or two female witnesses must be present to testify that the contract was properly entered into between the parties. The witnesses must be of sound mind, adult and Muslim.



In Shia Law, a marriage contracted by the spouses themselves or their guardians in private are held valid. Presence of witnesses is not necessary.



d) Differences of religion: A Sunni male can marry a Muslim female (Of any sect) or a Kitabia. Marriage with the Kitabia, i.e. a woman who believes in a revealed religion possessing a Divine Book viz Islam, Christianity and Judaism is valid under the Sunni Law. But he cannot marry an idolatress or a fire-worshiper. A marriage, however with a idolatress or a fire worshiper is merely irregular in Sunni Law, but void in Shia Law. A Muslim woman cannot marry any man who is not a Muslim, whether he is Kitabia (i.e. man believing in a revealed religion possessing a divine book) or not . According to Mulla, a marriage between a Muslim woman and Non-Muslim male is irregular. But according to Fyzee, such a marriage is totally void



Under Shia Law, no Muslim, whether male or female can marry a non-Muslim in the Nikah form.



Thus a marriage between a Muslim and a non-Muslim can only take place under The Special Marriage Act, 1954.



e) Woman undergoing Iddat: Iddat is a period during which it is incumbent upon a woman, whose marriage has been dissolved by divorce or death of her husband to remain in seclusion and to abstain from marrying another husband



Under Sunni Law marriage with a woman undergoing Iddat is irregular and not void. But under Shia law marriage with a woman who is undergoing Iddat is void.



3. PROHIBITIVE INCAPACITY:



It arises in the following cases:



a) Polyandry



b) A Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim



a) Polyandry: means the fact of having more than one husband. Polyandry is forbidden in the Muslim system and a married woman cannot marry second time so long as the first marriage subsists.



b) Muslim woman marrying a Non -Muslim: A marriage of a Muslim female with a non-Muslim male, whether he be a Christian, or a Jew or an idolator or a Fire-Worshiper is irregular under Sunni Law and void under Shia Law.



4. DIRECTORY INCAPACITY:



This may arise from:



a) Marrying a woman 'enceinte': It is unlawful to marry a woman who is already pregnant by her former husband.



b) Prohibition of divorce: When the marriage is dissolved by the pronouncements of divorce three times, re-union is prohibited except after the lawful marriage of the woman with another man and then its being dissolved after consummation.



c) Marriage during pilgrimage: Under Shia Law, Marriage during pilgrimage is void.



d)Marriage with a sick man: Marriage with a sick man suffering from disease which is likely to be fatal is invalid. If however, he recovers and the marriage is consummated, it is valid.
Tu jo sachchi hai larazti kyun hai aye zaban bol de darti kyun hai

qalb men khowfe khuda hai tere phir zuban sach se jhijhakti kyun hai


http://kaamwali.fullhydblogs.com
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by malakpetmasala » Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:33 am

any news on whats happening with the dual citizenship thing? n how does it work?
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