Monday, 2 March 2026 »  Login
in

khudkhushi !?!?

Welcome to the largest Hyderabadi forum on earth! Start discussions about anything from cool eat-outs and value gyms to terrorism, seek help, plan outings, make friends, and generally have fun!

Moderator: The Moderator Team

Re: ..

by asli_badmash » Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:57 pm

Alright I will give you the benefit of doubt..



Definition of solution - A solution is an action which when taken at a state with a problem, results to another state without that problem.

Do you mean that suicide is never a good solution? Because it clearly is a solution, in that the problem goes away.
Your definition of “solution” is clearly very pedantic. World is not so Black and white. You tend to look at the whole thing from a narrow perspective.. i.e. yours. Also, suicide is never a solution to a problem/issue. I think you agree with that point too, since you say you don’t encourage people to commit suicide. Meaning you don’t want people to commit suicide. (Read the following paragraph YOU wrote) But if you agree with that then why did you make the point “Do you mean that suicide is never a good solution? Because it clearly is a solution, in that the problem goes away.” What I am trying to show is your statements are contradictory. Either you support the point that people have right to commit suicide or you say; it’s not right to commit suicide and I don’t encourage it.

Rule for making a point; “Take a stance” and justify your point. Shifting between positions only leads to confusion among people.
The root of my argument here is not to encourage people to consider suicide, however the way society deals with this is obviously inadaquate, as it is a major cause of death in young people. Most of the stock arguments against it i've seen elsewhere do not give any relief to people who are dealing with depression.
Good point; But don’t blame the society. The society does not have time to sit down and solve your problem. It’s you who should realize that you have a problem and the try to seek help from your elders, peers and friends. Depression is a big issue and most of the people going through depression don’t even know they are depressed. But it’s the job of the family or loved ones to pull people out of the MUCK or you can go to a Shrink.

Telling suicidal people they're cowards clearly does not stop them from killing themselves. Often the relief of admitting that all of it could be over if they so chose is enough to keep them on the path of life.
I fail to see how when you say that “suicide will end it all” will stop people from committing suicide. On the contrary people will be more inclined to commit suicide; since they find someone who agrees with their point.



I didn’t say they were cowardly; we were expressing a personal opinion. I think you have to have a lot of guts to jump off the bridge or maybe hang yourself. I mean you have to be really brave to do that.



I think counseling people who are suicidal is a big task. You have to first gain the trust of the person. Then slowly suggest alternatives to the problem that they feel suicidal about. There are no guarantees to anything.



Basically people have to realize.. It is not worth throwing away life on small issues of life that can easily be solved with grit and determination! For christ's sake you are not the only one who is suffering in this world. Grow up! Take the example of people who have no legs or no hands.. and yet get up every day to go out and face the world. I have great respect for them. Look all around you.. you will find enough reasons to live and fight it out.



If Nafisa would have held on... and gotten over this realtionship. She would have found some nice guy and everything would have been wonderful. That stupid girl! :x



~badmash~
asli_badmash
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1180
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:18 am

....

by asli_badmash » Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:00 pm

CtrlAltDel wrote:i think i can understand marko's point. as he says suicide is a solution, but it cannot be called a good solution in most cases. it is more like the desparate act when the person does not have the courage or spirit to overcome the problem.
I agree... It takes a lot of courage to commit a suicide... but then it takes much more to fight it out.. and come out a winner. And beleive me there is no feeling better than that!

~badmash~
asli_badmash
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1180
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:18 am

by marko » Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:06 pm

CtrlAltDel wrote:i think i can understand marko's point. as he says suicide is a solution, but it cannot be called a good solution in most cases. it is more like the desparate act when the person does not have the courage or spirit to overcome the problem.






Thanks CAD, we often disagree but you always approach arguments with an open mind.
User avatar
marko
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:22 pm

Re: ..

by marko » Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:27 pm

asli_badmash wrote:Alright I will give you the benefit of doubt..


thanks, i really thought you were going to just duck the issue entirely

Your definition of “solution” is clearly very pedantic. World is not so Black and white. You tend to look at the whole thing from a narrow perspective.. i.e. yours


we're all looking at this from our own perspective.

. Also, suicide is never a solution to a problem/issue. I think you agree with that point too, since you say you don’t encourage people to commit suicide. Meaning you don’t want people to commit suicide. (Read the following paragraph YOU wrote)

No, i think suicide is a solution. problem goes away.


But if you agree with that then why did you make the point “Do you mean that suicide is never a good solution? Because it clearly is a solution, in that the problem goes away.” What I am trying to show is your statements are contradictory.

my statements are not contradictory. I do not encourage people to commit suicide, but i do think it is a solution of sorts.

Either you support the point that people have right to commit suicide or you say; it’s not right to commit suicide and I don’t encourage it.


No, it's possible to support their right, but to not encourage it. which is what im trying to do (obviously badly)

Rule for making a point; “Take a stance” and justify your point. Shifting between positions only leads to confusion among people.




so far i have tried to take a stance, that the right to take your life rests with the individual.

Read my first post on this thread, it sums up my position. I have not deviated from this stance.
User avatar
marko
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:22 pm

Re: ..

by asli_badmash » Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:56 pm

marko wrote:
asli_badmash wrote:Alright I will give you the benefit of doubt..
thanks, i really thought you were going to just duck the issue entirely
No I wasnt going to duck; I dont run away from situations... :D
marko wrote:No, i think suicide is a solution. problem goes away.
Wow! :shock:
marko wrote:No, it's possible to support their right, but to not encourage it. which is what im trying to do (obviously badly)
OK.. I get your point... So lets say someone is standing on the ledge and thinking about jumping... would you go to him and say "Listen I support your right to commit suicide but I dont encourage it. So get off the ledge right now." And what do you think would happen next !



:( --> eeee

------- \

|||||||~ \

|||||||~~\aaaa

|||||||~~.\

|||||||~~..\

|||||||~~..|aaaa

|||||||~~..|

=====*Phachak*



My point exactly!



~badmash~
asli_badmash
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1180
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:18 am

by marko » Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:12 pm

ok, re-read my posts, you're right that i got sidetracked a little (i still think i've been consistant though).



To reitterate my point - your life is your own. Not the governments, not your families, but your own. Who are you to deny me the right to take my life?

Who are the government, to deny me the right to take my life? Who are my family, to deny me the right to take my life? They don't own me. When i'm past the age of 18, i have responsibility for my own life.



Is this selfish? Yes, but that doesn't mean that it's not within my rights.

My family's reasons for wanting me alive are undoubtedly selfish also. I could move to timbuktu, and never speak to my family again, which would cause them a lot of pain, but i would be in my rights to do this.



(ps. i'm not thinking of killing myself, i'm just trying to be specific)
User avatar
marko
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:22 pm

by akhilis2cool » Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:51 pm

marko wrote:
azazel wrote:Suicide is never a solution :roll:


marko wrote:Do you mean that suicide is never a good solution? Because it clearly is a solution, in that the problem goes away.

yeh and so do u.


on one hand u say its wrong on the other hand u say it helps in 'solving' a problem. here its not abt solving a pblm. its abt trying to find a suitable solution....by any extent of imagination suicide is not 'the' solution ......
People are crazy, at times are strange. I am locked-in tight, I am out of range.
I used to care, but things have changed.
User avatar
akhilis2cool
God!
God!
 
Posts: 11476
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Camp Swampy

by azazel » Fri Jul 30, 2004 9:51 pm

ok, finally another discussion underway.. Marko dude, AB has put forth an argument which i almost completely agree with..



n i found the "suicide is a solution. problem goes away" statement :?

kindly elucidate ..
nolite arbitrari quia venerim mittere pacem in terram non veni pacem
User avatar
azazel
Level 1 Deity
Level 1 Deity
 
Posts: 5437
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:26 pm
Location: Chaosphere

by marko » Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:03 pm

akhilis2cool wrote:
marko wrote:
azazel wrote:Suicide is never a solution :roll:


marko wrote:Do you mean that suicide is never a good solution? Because it clearly is a solution, in that the problem goes away.

yeh and so do u.

on one hand u say its wrong on the other hand u say it helps in 'solving' a problem. here its not abt solving a pblm. its abt trying to find a suitable solution....by any extent of imagination suicide is not 'the' solution ......


i've never said it's wrong. i think i've mentioned "right" in my posts about 20 times, but i've never said "wrong" as far as i can remember. I've said it's pointless. thats a value judgement on my own part that i wouldn't force on anyone else legislatively, were i in a position to do so. I've said it's cowardly, again, a value judgement, not something i would force on others. But what i've come back to is that i believe everyone has a right to do it if they so chose.

my "suicide is a solution. problems goes away" statement was rushed and unhelpful. However this puts it much more ellequently (?spell?)

ASH FAQ wrote:Of course it's a solution. A solution is an action which when taken at a state with a problem, results to another state without that problem. So when one commits suicide he definitely solves his problems ( all of them at once as a matter of fact ), however he might create new problems to other people, but this is a different matter.
Perhaps what people really mean when they say this cliche is actually a bit more complicated. What they mean is that committing suicide is not in the framework, it does not conform to the moral system of the society.

Like if somebody comes up with an original solution to a riddle. Suppose the riddle involves crossing a river with some limited means and somebody tries to solve it by saying "They can cross the river with a helicopter" albeit a helicopter was not mentioned in the riddle. Someone might then say "thats not a solution" because the framework was broken. Generally in riddles you should use only the presented objects.

Society has its own framework - values. And when it's broken some people might reply "that is not a solution".

But perhaps the real problem in this cliche is defining the problem to which suicide is or is not a solution. Indeed there are many problems that suicide does not solve, Islamic fundamentalism and global warming to name a few. If the problem is "find happiness" then suicide is not a solution, but if it's "stop pain" then it is. At least give us the credit of defining our own problems.





the rest of the website is here (a good read)

http://ashbusstop.org/std.html



I think (and my opinion has been reinforced by this website and others) that the more we talk about suicide without making unhelpful value judgements like "cowardly", "pointless" (as i've made here, unfortunately for my argument), stupid, etc, the more chance there is that we can get people to face up to life, rather than exercise their right to end their life.



Badmash was trying to say that supporting peoples right to commit suicide would not stop them from it, however if suicide was not stigmatised in society, if people could talk about killing themselves without fearing imprisonment, or being called a coward, then they could open up about it, talk, and get the help they need.
User avatar
marko
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:22 pm

by akhilis2cool » Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:08 pm

u r using a website to support ur views??? i dont believe it....tomorrow u will bring along al qaeda website and justify the terrorrism :lol:
People are crazy, at times are strange. I am locked-in tight, I am out of range.
I used to care, but things have changed.
User avatar
akhilis2cool
God!
God!
 
Posts: 11476
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Camp Swampy

by marko » Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:11 pm

akhilis2cool wrote:u r using a website to support ur views??? i dont believe it....tomorrow u will bring along al qaeda website and justify the terrorrism :lol:




web is nothing but information, i would use a book to support my views, i would use news paper to support my views, if i agree with the content of a website, all of which is opinion not fact, then why the hell should i not use the website?
User avatar
marko
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:22 pm

by romu » Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:44 pm

---->A person's life is his own and he has the right to do whatever he wants to with it,be it even ending it.



---->A person usually resorts to ending his own life to escape such situations in his/her life,that would result in embarrassment/loss of respect in the society.Here the society is to blamed.



---->Even though people say that only cowards end their lives to avoid problems,i feel it is not so.A person cannot live in a society without respect,and when the same respect and dignity are under siege,a proud person may end up taking the sucide path.Here again ,I blame the society



---->Sucide is a solution for the problem,but it is the LEAST preffered solution.



---->I agree with marko,when he says that we cant stop a person from taking his own life,BUT Discouraging/trying to talk the person out of it, is what we can do.
"You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is 'never try'" -Homer Simpson
User avatar
romu
Registered User
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:38 pm
Location: shehar

by azazel » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:32 pm

romu wrote:---->A person usually resorts to ending his own life to escape such situations in his/her life,that would result in embarrassment/loss of respect in the society.Here the society is to blamed.


dude, y blame the society? the minute u say a person commits suicide to avoid embarassment in the society its prolly due to something which he committed ..ultimately, its his own fault.. there's nothing in the world which cannot be rectified with a lil' sense n strength of character!

---->Even though people say that only cowards end their lives to avoid problems,i feel it is not so.A person cannot live in a society without respect,and when the same respect and dignity are under siege,a proud person may end up taking the sucide path.Here again ,I blame the society


same as above..

---->Sucide is a solution for the problem,but it is the LEAST preferred solution.


to me, its never the right step.. whatever maybe the problem at hand..

---->I agree with marko,when he says that we cant stop a person from taking his own life,BUT Discouraging/trying to talk the person out of it, is what we can do.




talking sense into ppl with suicidal tendencies is the best way to stop them from taking such a drastic in some cases stoopid step!



p.s: Attempting suicide is a punishable offence in India :?
nolite arbitrari quia venerim mittere pacem in terram non veni pacem
User avatar
azazel
Level 1 Deity
Level 1 Deity
 
Posts: 5437
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:26 pm
Location: Chaosphere

by akhilis2cool » Mon Aug 02, 2004 12:08 pm

i dont believe any one has the right to take his own life. each and every person ahs some responsibility towards the society...by ending his/her life they only shrugging of the responsibility....

my life is mine...i`ll do wht ever i want with it funda...is ok only upto a certain extent....
People are crazy, at times are strange. I am locked-in tight, I am out of range.
I used to care, but things have changed.
User avatar
akhilis2cool
God!
God!
 
Posts: 11476
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Camp Swampy

....

by asli_badmash » Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:27 pm

akhilis2cool wrote:each and every person ahs some responsibility towards the society...by ending his/her life they only shrugging of the responsibility....
True True You nailed it... :D

~badmash~
asli_badmash
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1180
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:18 am

by marko » Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:58 pm

akhilis2cool wrote:i dont believe any one has the right to take his own life. each and every person ahs some responsibility towards the society...by ending his/her life they only shrugging of the responsibility....
my life is mine...i`ll do wht ever i want with it funda...is ok only upto a certain extent....




What, specifically, is my obligation to society? What, in my death, would society lose, that it wouldn't lose if i chose to lock myself in a little cottage in the woods and never talk to anyone again (or do you believe i have no right to do that either?)
User avatar
marko
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:22 pm

...

by asli_badmash » Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:34 pm

marko wrote:What, specifically, is my obligation to society? What, in my death, would society lose, that it wouldn't lose if i chose to lock myself in a little cottage in the woods and never talk to anyone again (or do you believe i have no right to do that either?)
Maybe the society would loose nothing... :D. Why dont you try that. :P



But, there is more to life than just your rights. Like your family and your obligations, your responsibilities. If you commit suicide not only are you running away from your life but also away from your obligations.



But as I see it.. Its a personal thing. Everybody has their opinion. You think your rights are bigger than you responsibilities... But the other way can easily be argued as you are doing.



All I can say is according to me SUICIDE SUCKS!



~badmash~
asli_badmash
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1180
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:18 am

by akhilis2cool » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:29 pm

marko wrote:
akhilis2cool wrote:i dont believe any one has the right to take his own life. each and every person ahs some responsibility towards the society...by ending his/her life they only shrugging of the responsibility....
my life is mine...i`ll do wht ever i want with it funda...is ok only upto a certain extent....


What, specifically, is my obligation to society? What, in my death, would society lose, that it wouldn't lose if i chose to lock myself in a little cottage in the woods and never talk to anyone again (or do you believe i have no right to do that either?)
come out of da well marko dude....al u think abt is YOU...its not always the right thing to do.....ur trying to say that ur friends...family...will not b affected if u committed suicide....come on.....get real.
People are crazy, at times are strange. I am locked-in tight, I am out of range.
I used to care, but things have changed.
User avatar
akhilis2cool
God!
God!
 
Posts: 11476
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Camp Swampy

by marko » Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:18 pm

akhilis2cool wrote:
marko wrote:
akhilis2cool wrote:i dont believe any one has the right to take his own life. each and every person ahs some responsibility towards the society...by ending his/her life they only shrugging of the responsibility....
my life is mine...i`ll do wht ever i want with it funda...is ok only upto a certain extent....


What, specifically, is my obligation to society? What, in my death, would society lose, that it wouldn't lose if i chose to lock myself in a little cottage in the woods and never talk to anyone again (or do you believe i have no right to do that either?)
come out of da well marko dude....al u think abt is YOU...its not always the right thing to do.....ur trying to say that ur friends...family...will not b affected if u committed suicide....come on.....get real.




By your argument, if i had no friends, family, etc, everything would be ok. what is the diference between me moving away from my country and never talking to them again, and me killing myself? What specific obligations does anyone have to society?



I'm not thinking about ME, i'm trying to make a case for the right to commit suicide. as Az has noted, its against the law. I don't believe it should be.
User avatar
marko
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:22 pm

by akhilis2cool » Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:31 pm

well dude most of the people in the world have a friend an d a family....but even those who dont...are a part of the society....my reference was to society...friends and family are a part of it.
People are crazy, at times are strange. I am locked-in tight, I am out of range.
I used to care, but things have changed.
User avatar
akhilis2cool
God!
God!
 
Posts: 11476
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Camp Swampy

by marko » Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:39 pm

akhilis2cool wrote:well dude most of the people in the world have a friend an d a family....but even those who dont...are a part of the society....my reference was to society...friends and family are a part of it.




so what if im a drain on society, would it be ok by you then? Or should i be thrown in prison if i try?





(i'd like to reitterate that i don't want to kill myself, its just easier than writing "a person" repeatedly)
User avatar
marko
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:22 pm

by akhilis2cool » Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:44 pm

marko wrote:
akhilis2cool wrote:well dude most of the people in the world have a friend an d a family....but even those who dont...are a part of the society....my reference was to society...friends and family are a part of it.


so what if im a drain on society, would it be ok by you then? Or should i be thrown in prison if i try?


(i'd like to reitterate that i don't want to kill myself, its just easier than writing "a person" repeatedly)
kya baat karaa kya hai ki :roll:
People are crazy, at times are strange. I am locked-in tight, I am out of range.
I used to care, but things have changed.
User avatar
akhilis2cool
God!
God!
 
Posts: 11476
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Camp Swampy

by marko » Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:52 pm

ok, i'll take that as a cue to end the argument. (i don't know what it means as i don't speak Hindi)

It's been fun, interesting discussion. see ya elsewhere on the boards. i'll try to be less argumentitive, as i sense people are getting pissed off by it. i don't really want to have loads of enemies in Hyd before i even get there!
User avatar
marko
Level 2 Star User
Level 2 Star User
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:22 pm

by azazel » Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:58 pm

marko wrote:ok, i'll take that as a cue to end the argument. (i don't know what it means as i don't speak Hindi) It's been fun, interesting discussion. see ya elsewhere on the boards. i'll try to be less argumentitive, as i sense people are getting pissed off by it. i don't really want to have loads of enemies in Hyd before i even get there!




it means "Have no clue as to what ur point is!"

btw, it was a good discussion alrite n u dun have to worry abt ppl gettin pissed off, they cool down just as fast :twisted: enemies? we? naah, we're way too cooler than tht :wink:
nolite arbitrari quia venerim mittere pacem in terram non veni pacem
User avatar
azazel
Level 1 Deity
Level 1 Deity
 
Posts: 5437
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:26 pm
Location: Chaosphere

by Mayavi Morpheus » Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:00 pm

He said that he doesnt understand your logic. Right akhil?

Your posts are good, keep posting and dont be discouraged. No one is pissed. Its just the Hyderabadi laid back attitutde that doesnt let people to get into heavy discusions/arguements, too stressfull I say ;)
User avatar
Mayavi Morpheus
Level 2 Lord
Level 2 Lord
 
Posts: 3201
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 7:42 am
Location: 30° 27' North ; 91° 08' West

PreviousNext      

Return to The Hyderabadi Planet!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
ADVERTISEMENT
SHOUTBOX!
{{todo.name}}
{{todo.date}}
[
]
{{ todo.summary }}... expand »
{{ todo.text }} « collapse
First  |  Prev  |   1   2  3  {{current_page-1}}  {{current_page}}  {{current_page+1}}  {{last_page-2}}  {{last_page-1}}  {{last_page}}   |  Next  |  Last
{{todos[0].name}}

{{todos[0].text}}

ADVERTISEMENT
This page was tagged for
khudkhushi means
meaning of khud khushi
Follow fullhyd.com on
Copyright © 2023 LRR Technologies (Hyderabad) Pvt Ltd. All rights reserved. fullhyd and fullhyderabad are registered trademarks of LRR Technologies (Hyderabad) Pvt Ltd. The textual, graphic, audio and audiovisual material in this site is protected by copyright law. You may not copy, distribute or use this material except as necessary for your personal, non-commercial use. Any trademarks are the properties of their respective owners.