prospective PM of India - Sonia Gandhi

[Yeah Right]

but you do have to live here. That's the reason "E-mails from hundreds of Indians living tens of thousand miles away from their motherland" don't impress me much. You focus on making those dollars, folks! And let we resident Indians decide what/who is good for us.

that i agree.
even people who do not like to come out and vote have no right to crib about anything. they can just get on with their life.

Aren't we getting personal here? I did admit in another thread that I did not cast my vote and i guess you are referring to that. But I fail to understand how it is connected to my above mentioned statement on NRIs who are vocal about Indian politics. One would believe that when some one leaves his/her country in search of better prospects, he/she ceases to have a say in its political system.

However, some one who is very much a resident of the country, and hence is affected by the prevailing governance in so many ways, and also contributes to its economy on a daily basis, has every say in matters pertaining to the governance / politics. Not casting my vote doesn't deprive my citizenship, and I'm free to crib about factors that affect me as long as I live here

Would this mean when you move out of State, you cease to vote for the State Elections ?

[Habitual Perfectionist]

I can understand people being so fiercely patriotical. Let's introspect a bit too.



--> Aren't we the same people who celebrated when a person of Indian origin was elected PM in Fiji?



--> Weren't we following the election campaign of Bobby Jindal for Governer of Louisiana with a lot of pride?



--> Inspite of the BJP having puked so much about national honour et al, were they really upholding our national honour? Why should the Prime Minister of India (Head of govt. and equivalent to the President of the US) get up in the middle of the night to take a call from Colin Powell (Secretary of State and an equivalent to the External Affairs minister of India)? Whatever happened to protocol?



Everytime you say something against Sonia (not that I approve of her); I request you to ask yourself the above questions. Are we not following double standards in whatever we're doing? Or are we getting imperialistic already?

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Aren't we the same people who celebrated when a person of Indian origin was elected PM in Fiji?

Mahendar chaudry and Jindal are citizens of fiji and US respectively by their own choice. I dunno abt Mr.Chaudry, but jindal was born, brought up and educated in US. He is as American as any caucasian or black. Jindal is not Indian, but American of Indian ethinicity.

Mahendar chaudry was a trade union leader before he was elected.

Fiji has a large percentage of ethnic Indian population and they are as much fijian as any other fijian. What percentage of Indians are ethnic Italians?

Both Jindal and Chaudary did something for their countries before being elected to the office. Jindals contribution to the heath department has been immense.

Can you say the same about sonia gandhi?

1. Did she become Indian citizen by choice, like Arnold or Jindal.

[married in 68, she was eligible for citizenship in 73 - 5 years of Indian residence]

2. What are her achievements, what did she do for India as a political leader?

[Sonia's Track record:

http://soniagandhi.org/php/showContent.php?linkid=3

They have nothing to put in this page ]

3. Is she aware of the problems India and its populace is facing?

4. Is she aware of the Indian culture as she is not a part of it.

5. Can she speak the Indian national language, the language of the poor.



A jindal or a Chaudry or a Arnold have all the above qualities, and more importantly they fulfill the main requirement, that of citizenship by choice.



If Sonia was not RG's wife and settled in India like a annie beasant or a dilip kumar, then I would have no problem with that. She is not a Indian citizen and she doesnt even have the necessary qualifications or political experience to lead a country

[Mayavi Morpheus]

One question though: Doesn't India have a constitutional rule [like the US] that President etc. can only be someone who is a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN?

-Jaan

P.S. Bimbette, cool Avatar!

Thats one of the several loop holes in our constituition. Ambedkar and co. didnt foresee this situation. May be they thought that Indians arent dumb to elect a foreigner for the highest post after 400 years of slavery. How wrong they were. We yindoos never learn.

The irony of it all, in a country of 1 billion people, we have a lady of foreign origin leading us! And pray whats her claim to the post?

A 100 year old party couldnt find a leader that they had to bring a house wife (with no political experience) out of recluse to lead them.

Like someone said, jab tuta batallion to laaye italian.

[Habitual Perfectionist]

Hi morpheus.....long time no spam. Kaise ho?



Coming to your comparison between Jindal & Sonia, if Jindal was an american like all else, why was everyone hooked on to his campaign here?



And all other points you have mentioned do not have anything to do with the foreign origin issue.



Let me be clearer on this. I've mentioned earlier that I'm fully against Sonia being PM because she doesn't have the prerequisites one needs to have in order to occupy the top post. I still maintain that we should not bring out the foreign origin issue as it is nothing but a mishmash the BJP is bringing out to cover its shortcomings at the hustings.



The foreign origin issue has been looked into by the supreme court and the honourable court has decreed that Sonia is well within her rights constitutionally to be the PM. The nation has voted for the congress and allies (remember that these alliances were primarily built up pre-poll and not like the NDA which was a post poll alliance formed just to create a govt.) and it was a known fact that Sonia was the PM candidate of the congress. Who are we, a small section of the society, to be judgemental over something that the majority populace has already decided?



As for Sonia not knowing about the problems of the people, Sonia has put in more campaigning hours than the PM & DPM combined and she has traversed the entire country. This time around, she has spoken ex-tempore and her campaign style has been a people to people contact one and not one with speeches and election meetings. She does have an inkling about the problems we face today.



But yes.....I personally don't find her PM material. But neither did I approve of VP Singh...nor Chandra Shekhar....or Deve Gowda....and not even IK Gujral. None of them were. But they still occupied that chair. We never raised any hue and cry. My question is....just by being an indian, does one automatically qualify for the top post? Let's stop reacting negatively and for once, respect the people's mandate. Someone compared BJP's tally of 185 in the last house with Congress' 145 this time around. Anything less than a majority is a minority brother....and in no way can we say that those 185 were any better than this 145. The NDA was a coalition of 20+ parties. The SPA is a more compact unit.



Damn...i can keep ranting and there would be no end to this. All I can say is that this is democracy. Not everyone likes everything that happens around here. But in no way are we an immature democracy and we should be proud of this fact.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Coming to your comparison between Jindal & Sonia, if Jindal was an american like all else, why was everyone hooked on to his campaign here?

Nothing wrong in that. I dont think anyone in India has a problem with Italians rejoicing over sonia's victory.

And all other points you have mentioned do not have anything to do with the foreign origin issue.

They do. Why did the gandhis and nehrus fight for self-rule? Indians were admitted to the legislative assembly in early 30's, still the freedom struggle wasnt stopped. Why?
I definitely donot want to be ruled by a person of foreign origin simply because they have their heart somewhere else rather than in India. They have different philosophy, different way of life. Their history is different from that of ours.
Except 2, all other points I raised are pertinent to the origin. How can we have a PM who cannot even speak our language?

I still maintain that we should not bring out the foreign origin issue as it is nothing but a mishmash the BJP is bringing out to cover its shortcomings at the hustings.

Irrespective of BJP's stand, I am against a foreigner ruling India.

The foreign origin issue has been looked into by the supreme court and the honourable court has decreed that Sonia is well within her rights constitutionally to be the PM.

It doesnt prove anything. Supreme court merely follows constituition and IPC and as I mentioned in the previous post foreign origin issue was overlooked when constituition was drafted. The constituition needs to be ammended.

The nation has voted for the congress and allies (remember that these alliances were primarily built up pre-poll and not like the NDA which was a post poll alliance formed just to create a govt.) and it was a known fact that Sonia was the PM candidate of the congress.

Sonias candidature for PM was not revealed before elections, dunno if that would have changed anything.

Who are we, a small section of the society, to be judgemental over something that the majority populace has already decided?

The majority also supports suppression of women, dowry and million other things, why doesnt the educated minority keep quiet?
Dumbass voters, what kinda person will vote for a party thats is not sure of its leader? The same dumbass population has voted for congress in state w/o knowing the CM candidate. Remember YSR's statement? "Sonia will decide the state CM!" Sonia loves her dog and wants to make it AP's CM, would that be ok? Whatever happened to the self esteem Why do we have seperate state, constituencies, assembly etc if a high command of central party decides who has to rule?

As for Sonia not knowing about the problems of the people, Sonia has put in more campaigning hours than the PM & DPM combined and she has traversed the entire country.

Excuse me! are you comparing sonias experience with that of Vajpayee, a freedom fighter!? A person with 50 years of political experience, a person from a middle class farmers family? Thats blasphemy.

My question is....just by being an indian, does one automatically qualify for the top post?

No. But not being a citizen should automatically disqualify a person from contesting for top post.

If foreign origin is not an issue, then why not bring clinton, tony blair or mushraff to rule India? They too can live for 5 years, become citizens and can contest. Will that be ok?



Bottom line is that PM should be representative of the people of India, its culture and tradition, and should understand the dynamics of the country.

[Bimbette]

Hey Five7, thanx pal. Just thought I'd join the club!



I had interviewed a firebrand politician sometime ago and she told me "People get the government they deserve". The writing on the wall is clear.



Time to grin and bear it folks.

[Xiaowind]

Seems many of you don't like her to be the PM of India.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Seems the coalition got a new name:

UNITE REGRESSIVE ALLIANCE

[akhilis2cool]

Seems the coalition got a new name:
UNITE REGRESSIVE ALLIANCE

I can understand laoo supporting her...but wasnt ram vila paaswan with the NDA?? i am not sure abt that.....



but what an elite company we have there. none of them is an ex PM ...sab apne apne fayde ke liye aaye saale.

[Happy Hyderabadi]

Seems the coalition got a new name:
UNITE REGRESSIVE ALLIANCE

I can understand laoo supporting her...but wasnt ram vila paaswan with the NDA?? i am not sure abt that.....

but what an elite company we have there. none of them is an ex PM ...sab apne apne fayde ke liye aaye saale.

Why Crib? Then Old Man On Sinbad ... Now, Sonbai On Hindbhais! Carry On ... Serve Sonbai's Heirs, Too ... OR Drop Dead for Serf Relief ...

[Skeptic]

Hi again...



All you guys talk as if you were given to choose a nation, where you want to belong, before being born. If you were an Italian, you'd have read the newspapers out of curiousity, just shrugged and got on with your life.



Nationalism is important when some group (alien to the concerned land grabs power, primarily for the resources available there and transfer/loot precious things from occupied land to their own)... Or in some such case. I don't see what's the problem if the person has taken citizenship and residing here. (And not that dual citizenship thing again pls... thats such c*&^%).



If the discussion is on the capability of the person to take up such a responsibility, thats another thing. But then, if Vajpayee is your benchmark I don't think there's much to discuss anyway... (And Vajpayee was not a freedom fighter! )

[akhilis2cool]

Why Crib? Then Old Man On Sinbad ... Now, Sonbai On Hindbhais! Carry On ... Serve Sonbai's Heirs, Too ... OR Drop Dead for Serf Relief ...

HH sir u a congress supporter or what?

[Skeptic]

Hi again...



All you guys talk as if you were given to choose a nation, where you want to belong, before being born. If you were an Italian, you'd have read the newspapers out of curiousity, just shrugged and got on with your life.



Nationalism is important when some group (alien to the concerned land grabs power, primarily for the resources available there and transfer/loot precious things from occupied land to their own)... Or in some such case. I don't see what's the problem if the person has taken citizenship and residing here. (And not that dual citizenship thing again pls... thats such c*&^%).



If the discussion is on the capability of the person to take up such a responsibility, thats another thing. But then, if Vajpayee is your benchmark I don't think there's much to discuss anyway... (And Vajpayee was not a freedom fighter! )

[Mayavi Morpheus]

[quote="Skeptic"]Hi again...

I don't see what's the problem if the person has taken citizenship and residing here.

[quote]



This person we are talking about is the PM of India and not a typical naturalised citizen. Any decision she takes as PM of India is going to effect my life and your life too and I have a problem phorenors talking crucial decisions which effect my life and that of fellow country men.

[Skeptic]

This person we are talking about is the PM of India and not a typical naturalised citizen. Any decision she takes as PM of India is going to effect my life and your life too and I have a problem phorenors talking crucial decisions which effect my life and that of fellow country men.

TRue.... but we are talking about parliamentary form of government where PM takes a decision together with cabinet and (since you do not trust the party in govt) parliament itself. She's not going to be some sort of a dictator. Also, there is a very capable judiciary system in our country, which readily steps in if needed.



(BTW, I hope you had voiced your anger when Astrology was being made part of our academic curriculum.)

[akhilis2cool]

Hi again...
All you guys talk as if you were given to choose a nation, where you want to belong, before being born. If you were an Italian, you'd have read the newspapers out of curiousity, just shrugged and got on with your life.

sorry sir,
but the italian press is going crazy b`coz sonia is going to b`coma our PM. one italian made this statement : Italy is the only country with 2 PMs on in Italy and one in India.

If the discussion is on the capability of the person to take up such a responsibility, thats another thing. But then, if Vajpayee is your benchmark I don't think there's much to discuss anyway... (And Vajpayee was not a freedom fighter! )

dont even think of comapring vajpayee to sonia. he managed the coalition better than any one else could. sonia gandhi is having problems on deciding whether to become a PM or not (what a shame). one comment by a CPI leader and the Stock exc. goes down by 535 points. kya manage karegi sonia gandhi????

[Skeptic]

but the italian press is going crazy b`coz sonia is going to b`coma our PM. one italian made this statement : Italy is the only country with 2 PMs on in Italy and one in India.

press here would also go bonkers if some Indian is making news elsewhere...i'm talking about individuals like you n me.... would it matter to you??

dont even think of comapring vajpayee to sonia. he managed the coalition better than any one else could.

How did he manage... by letting them arm-twist him... Vajpayee plays to the audience, dear! And me thinks, that's nothing to brag about.

one comment by a CPI leader and the Stock exc. goes down by 535 points. kya manage karegi sonia gandhi????

That's true... handling Left party guys would be a great deal. We'll see that soon enough, won't we!?

[Satish]

For all those cribbing about a foreign national becoming a PM of this country

1)Nationality is about conscience , it is not abt birth or skin color..that is why we have citizenship based on naturalisation also.The furore against an Italian born-naturalised Indian becoming a PM rightly points out the casteist and racist ideology that was ingrained in many of our brains.Please do get over it...be rational.

2)When everyone including Sushma Swaraj has no reservations for Sonia becoming an opposition leader(mind u, opposition leader is of the rank of Cabinet minister), why now?

3)Stock market: Does it not work according to the whims and fancies of FIIs..who are they? aren't they foreigners?

4)About Left: Why Globalisation only in markets? why not in labour?why not in other fields? think...think..

[CtrlAltDel]

1)Nationality is about conscience , it is not abt birth or skin color..that is why we have citizenship based on naturalisation also.The furore against an Italian born-naturalised Indian becoming a PM rightly points out the casteist and racist ideology that was ingrained in many of our brains.Please do get over it...be rational.

What happened to Sonia's conscience after she married Rajiv, upto 1983. It belonged to Italy. Its not casteist or racist. its nationalistic. none of our founding fathers ever imagined this situation taking place. If she had immediately adopted Indian citizenship after marriage and remained loyal in 1971 and 1978, there wud'nt have been any opposition now.

2)When everyone including Sushma Swaraj has no reservations for Sonia becoming an opposition leader(mind u, opposition leader is of the rank of Cabinet minister), why now?

Opposition leaders dont make decisions for us and are not privy to sensitive information.

3)Stock market: Does it not work according to the whims and fancies of FIIs..who are they? aren't they foreigners?

they invest their money here, which wud benefit India as well as themselves. what is there in Sonia that wud benefit India?

4)About Left: Why Globalisation only in markets? why not in labour?why not in other fields? think...think..

thought...thought...

what do u mean by globalisation of labour? do u mean we have to allow import of foreigners of questionable patriotism to run our country?

[Skeptic]

What happened to Sonia's conscience after she married Rajiv, upto 1983. It belonged to Italy. Its not casteist or racist. its nationalistic. none of our founding fathers ever imagined this situation taking place. If she had immediately adopted Indian citizenship after marriage and remained loyal in 1971 and 1978, there wud'nt have been any opposition now.

Man!!! Not only are women expected to settle at husbands' place, they are supposed to change their loyalties suddenly and immediately. Ask any girl getting married and going to join green-card-holding husband... she won'tthink much of your opinion. Give the ladies a break yaar.

[Satish]

Globalisation of labor: It means using our human resources , why should globalisation talk about only capital.if they have capital we have labour let them give jobs to our skilled professionals in their contries.

Why FIIs why not FDIs? PLEASE THINK AGAIN...if u cant understand it..i'll explain again

Cabinet is more powerful than a PM..we r not in a feudal setup..we r a living democracy.

When people supporting Godse can become PMs and Dy.PMs, a person , just becuse she didnt apply for citizenship (its only a legal one not of consience),though living in a Indian joint family according to Indian traditions has to be debarred?

If we discriminate any person on birth or race, what moral standing we'll have when we fight against racism across the world?

[Su]

RG was influenced by his Italian replatives to an extent and some led to his famous scams... what would be the case with Sonia

[CtrlAltDel]

Man!!! Not only are women expected to settle at husbands' place, they are supposed to change their loyalties suddenly and immediately. Ask any girl getting married and going to join green-card-holding husband... she won'tthink much of your opinion. Give the ladies a break yaar.

u mean they can change their loyalties over night after 15 years???

by strange co-incidence that late switch of loyalty happened when her hubby was about to become PM...

[CtrlAltDel]

:lol: Globalisation of labor: It means using our human resources , why should globalisation talk about only capital.if they have capital we have labour let them give jobs to our skilled professionals in their contries.

isnt that already happening? plz note that they allow only when they dont find a suitable employee from among themselves.

Why FIIs why not FDIs? PLEASE THINK AGAIN...if u cant understand it..i'll explain again

plz explain...i dont get yr point..

Cabinet is more powerful than a PM..we r not in a feudal setup..we r a living democracy.

...but here the only glue that hold this cabinet together is the hatred for BJP. thats what is making grown adults sell their self respect.

When people supporting Godse can become PMs and Dy.PMs, a person , just becuse she didnt apply for citizenship (its only a legal one not of consience),though living in a Indian joint family according to Indian traditions has to be debarred?

her NOT applying for citizenship does matter here. it shows her heart was (maybe is still) with Italy. her lack of loyalty can be seen from the way she treated the Indian Intelligence even before Rajiv became PM.
many people may support Godse, but that does not mean they are disloyal to India. Since when did love of Mahatma Gandhi become a test of patriotism?

If we discriminate any person on birth or race, what moral standing we'll have when we fight against racism across the world?

why is this being made an issue of racism? as i said before, its nationalism at work here.