facts about engineering

[CtrlAltDel]

good points PMoW, particularly i agree on...... it just happens that people with good analytical abilities enter engineering...............would u like to comment on This is the reason that you rarely find an MBA entrepreneur. Someone else always has to create an organisation, which the MBA is then happy to manage. IIMs are not about creating entrepreneurs, individuals with a passion for ideas, for risk taking. every event on start-ups i attended and everyone i have heard to, say......."its all done by techies".............its a general european belief that if u have IT in u, u will do it, therez no need for an MBA, u learn everything on job, agreed to a certain extent, now-a-days, even they are saying, probably an engineer needs to go to b-school after working for a few yrs!!! coming to disagreement.......... i dont agree with ur point, people r there in mfd'ing coz they have no where else to go...........probably true in India, but upto an extent. thats sounds something like, u r in mfd'ing means u didnt get another better job, which falls in the same line as, u r not in India coz u r not capable to go to US !! is it? we just cant generalize ............isint it ? IIM guys are self centric, i would like to ask the writer of the first article, ofcourse .....r u not? r u not interested in making money? no fundaas please ..........as long as there is population (intellectual) explosion in only one or two sectors...............the country is destined to go to the dogs !! and finally, most of IIM student dont have any experience, thats the worst part of the top notch b-schools. they are basically helping people to change lines/careers, but are not training best people in all industries(thats seems like business being done by the institute itself rather than doing service to the society) ........

yr points r also valid ZC. i'd like to point out here that even i dont agree with most points in that article.



but one question remains: engineering education is highly subsidised in India, whether OU or RECs or IITs. Since most of the engineering grads from any branch gravitate towards management or computer programming...to earn good money...whats the point in subsidising their education...?



as India is a democracy and as v have a right of choice, the govt. cannot compel the engineer to stick to his own field but should remove subsidies since theres no point in it.



this craze for marketing and IT will lead to depleted resources in other vital branches of the economy and that will affect the country in the long run. we already saw how after the DOT COM bust, thousands of engineers were jobless, mainly coz they were prepared only to work in IT. if many had preferred their line of specialization, they wudn't ve faced this problem.



on similar lines i also do not support the govt. move to cut IIM fees, since the students get astronomical pay-packets after graduation anyway. all banks fall over each other to lend to IIM students, so there's no financial burden on the student.

[ZC]

did u read an article by a prof from IIMB? he says, that a well guarded secret of IIMs is that......the chance that tailors and coblers repay their loan is higher than an IIM grad repaying his Tution fee loan..........IIMs are not worried abt what happens to society .....they are worried that they will loose their autonomy..........if IIMs dont want Fee subsidy and IIM faculty who say "students will learn to make money thru MBA, the first step is make money to pay the fee", i say "well, u will be teaching them how to make money, so u shud be role model for them and shuldnt take any subsidy as house etc" i think all subsidy is to be removed, reservation is to be removed and only economical help is to be provided as scholarships to poor people who cannot pay though they are meritorious. until the day this doesnt happen, Brain Drain will continue..........ur now seeing that software people are coming back to India, the result wont be reverse Brain Drain, thats a myth, what will happen is and is already happening is people will stop studying that ....if they feel that the particular industry will shift jobs to elsewhere. its quality of life at other countries which drives brain drain. Mera Bharat Mahan people say, coz they have to be diplomatic and cannot say, USA kicked me out !! at the end, if HYD, Blore, Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai outsources their jobs to Bihar.....who would want to study that subject these are the effects of globalisation, at the end it will reach a steady state..............when? i dont know.

[CtrlAltDel]

IIMs are not worried abt what happens to society .....they are worried that they will loose their autonomy..........if IIMs dont want Fee subsidy and IIM faculty who say "students will learn to make money thru MBA, the first step is make money to pay the fee",

dont u think v r being somewhat unfair to IIMs? after all they do turn out managers of caliber. thats also why i oppose fee cuts. Quality should not come cheap. there's no such thing as a free lunch. and other cliches.

i think all subsidy is to be removed, reservation is to be removed and only economical help is to be provided as scholarships to poor people who cannot pay though they are meritorious.

i second that...when that happens India wud be heaven! Reservations for the poor only.

...at the end, if HYD, Blore, Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai outsources their jobs to Bihar.....

least likely to happen as long as illiterate jokers r running the state. if the present situation continues, no CEO in his right mind wud want to relocate to bihar.

[Prince]

Sad, that so much newsprint/ bandwidth is wasted in our country on what, about 1000 individuals every year?



Shoot me if you want, but I am an engineer, did my MBA from an IIM, and worse of all, was associated with manufacturing companies for many years. Now, my take on some of the issues that were raised here:



1) IIMs do not produce entrepreuners

Fair enough, but is that their objective? My car does not fly. Dumbo car. Most of us are risk averse. Honestly, how many of us choose your degree - engineering or otherwise? Willing to pay high fees for English medium school? yes, improves my chances, you see; engineering? yes, improves my chances; Civil? no way, EEE.; IMCYS again. All through our life, most of have been risk averse, and 21 months in an IIM will change that? We need to ask our friend who makes balls and ? on fullhyd, to let us know what it takes to make an entrepreuner. Or, better still, talk to the flower seller on the road. The rest of us have no clue. More later

[Prince]

2) Why is there a pre-ponderance of Engineers?

Apart from the 'analytical ability' that people talked about, there could be another reason. IIMs really prefer people with work experience. Atleast in the past, youngsters in the 21-23 years range, with job-exp used to be engineers. With this BPO boom now, and a lot more arts, science and commerce grads getting work-exp (and hating them!) I suppose we should see the proportion of non-engineers in IIMs increasing

[Prince]

I could go on, but don't want to hog the discussion.. More only when I see some responses.



Gosh, we are discussing such an issue on a board on human relationships?? God save the queen. But did he?

[Happy Hyderabadi]

Engineers designed, made and tested actual products ... Thanks to IT, people are happy to see "Colourful" Pictures on the PC! The Presenters need not know their Products, being of varied Education like Science, Commerce and other Non-Engineering areas. Management Scholars are also happy with their PC generated "Beautiful" Reports, however unreal they may be!

The Tools have taken over the Field of Knowledge ... Engineers and Managers must return to their Profession and really do what they must be doing.

[ZC]

We need to ask our friend who makes balls and ? on fullhyd, to let us know what it takes to make an entrepreuner. Or, better still, talk to the flower seller on the road. The rest of us have no clue. More later

believe in urself, that poster of lacoste saying this....i hanged that on the wall of my hostel room while in school, and the other one, Ambition never comes to an end, keep walking-Johnny Walker, they changed my life.................... me happy making balls and rods, i enjoy everybit of it

[ZC]

.......... HYD, Blore, Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai outsources their jobs to Bihar.....

least likely to happen as long as illiterate jokers r running the state. if the present situation continues, no CEO in his right mind wud want to relocate to bihar.

bihar meaning, cheaper places, not literally bihar most likely. read this. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 590989.cms

[Prince]

ZC,



Sorry if you feel hurt. I honestly didn't mean to. I used your profile only to show that entrepreuners are a class apart and that you need real guts to run a business, even if that involves selling flowers. I have tremendous respect for those who venture out on their own.



All the very best to you.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Thats natural, as the economy improves service jobs - BPO and ITES - go to Tier II and Tier III cities. Tier I cities move to high end research and development. If we donot improve connectivity and infrastrucutre in the Tier II cities, these jobs will move to other countries where labor is cheap.

[ZC]

ZC,

Sorry if you feel hurt. I honestly didn't mean to. I used your profile only to show that entrepreuners are a class apart and that you need real guts to run a business, even if that involves selling flowers. I have tremendous respect for those who venture out on their own.

All the very best to you.

did i look (sound rather) like i was unhappy? i was infact happy that u mentioned me

[ZC]

Thats natural, as the economy improves service jobs - BPO and ITES - go to Tier II and Tier III cities. Tier I cities move to high end research and development. If we donot improve connectivity and infrastrucutre in the Tier II cities, these jobs will move to other countries where labor is cheap.

would like to see the same lines in "Naidu-stop blowing ur trumpet"

[Portuguese Man-Of-War]

ZC,

Sorry if you feel hurt. I honestly didn't mean to. I used your profile only to show that entrepreneurs are a class apart and that you need real guts to run a business, even if that involves selling flowers. I have tremendous respect for those who venture out on their own.

All the very best to you.

Hi Prince,



Entrepreneurship is nowhere near as difficult as most people think it is. It is just a shift of mindset. It's true of everything in life. It's about taking a decision - pre and post. I think if someday you were to take on a lion to survive, you'd be scared for as long as it were an option and you did not decide to do it. But the moment you decide to do it, the whole way that you think in changes. It's just, "I gotta do it, so how do I." Fear goes into the toilet. And the moment you actually start fighting, there's SIMPLY NO FEAR. You're only thinking of how to escape its claws, poke into its eyes or strangulate it. It's just a battle of strength and wits. You're thinking about how to win, that's it. I don't think any soldier, in the thick of a battle where he is actually fighting, is ever afraid. He's just fighting his best - there's no context for fear.



Most people who consider entrepreneurship are at the stage where they've not decided to do it - that's all. That is the stage where you are comparing it to your present lifestyle, worried about failure, the sacrifices and all that. The whole problem there is that it is an OPTION. But once you've decided to do it, when it's no longer an option but something that's gotta be done, then you are only thinking of what to do. Like I said, there's no context for fear.



I think that is one of the simple secrets of achievement - you have to decide to do something, not let it be an option. If you know something is good for you or that something is what real men do, don't think of it as an option.



Lastly, entreprenuership is addictive. Once that shift of mindset happens - and it's a blink of an eye away - it's super-difficult to get back into being a normal employee.



I once read a story about how Daksha Prajapathi, in that famous yagna, warned all the rishis that if they did not side with him, he would curse them to become normal men and be born in this world. I realized then that what we live so passionately is a curse. But you'll never realize it for as long as you are a human being and have never been a rishi and reached that much more blissful state of mind. I think that is also the difference between working for someone and being an entrepreneur. It's only when you turn an entrepreneur that you realize that working for someone is, er, being human.



Not every entrepreneur will become an Ambani, of course. But as you dream of it and go along, the everyday life is much more fulfilling.

[Prince]

Interesting thoughts, PMoW.



I think the hitch for many of us is in the fact that entrepreunership is not really the 'only option' when you can discard all fear. Very few entrepreuners (except for the road side sellers) get into business because that is the only option. ZC, for example may have had other options.



How can I make it my only option? Either circumstances force me, or I force myself. If nothing, the second one is a lot more difficult.



My respect for entrepreuners only increase. As you say, entrepreunership in itself may not be difficult. But if they have forced themselves to think of that as the only option, hats off to them.

[ZC]

Lastly, entreprenuership is addictive. Once that shift of mindset happens - and it's a blink of an eye away - it's super-difficult to get back into being a normal employee.

[Portuguese Man-Of-War]

Interesting thoughts, PMoW.

I think the hitch for many of us is in the fact that entrepreunership is not really the 'only option' when you can discard all fear. Very few entrepreuners (except for the road side sellers) get into business because that is the only option. ZC, for example may have had other options.

How can I make it my only option? Either circumstances force me, or I force myself. If nothing, the second one is a lot more difficult.

My respect for entrepreuners only increase. As you say, entrepreunership in itself may not be difficult. But if they have forced themselves to think of that as the only option, hats off to them.

It is certainly not the only option, Prince. But I believe it is the most challenging and potentially rewarding one of the options available to you. Do you know any of the - career-wise - most successful men or women who work for anyone? The richest men (like I said, we are talking only careers) are all entrepreneurs. And over time I've gotten around to believing that if you are not taking up the most challenging option available to you, it's a sub-optimal choice. Not that I take the most challenging options available to me all the time. But I know that that is what it should be.