Naidu: stop blowing ur trumpet

[zc]

azazel: No sarcasm plz. am damn serious abt what i said and every line makes sense. If u can debate: join it.

[azazel]

Ok. Chill out dude..

[Mayavi Morpheus]

i assume u agree that AP is not so good in IT/software/BPO.

Wrong Assumption and I dont agree. I gave you figures and if you think thats bad performance, then I cant help it. You have to keep in mind that Banglore and Noida had a head start.

Bihar doesnt have electricity lines, poor state man!!

You are mistaken again. Bihar is not a poor state. Politics made it poor. Bihar has very rich natural resources. Bihar is whats feeding the countries thermal power plants and doesnt have enough electricity. What an irony. What could be the reason? Did u ever try to think of it?

we have electricity lines but no electricity!! ha ha ha ha!!

Says who? Check the APGENCE and Transco sites. Nearly 97% of villages are electrified. That means they can atelast have a light bulb, that too at a subsidy. If you want everyone to have A/C then the state has to be sold to foreign country. Congress will do exactly that if it comes to power. Their election promisei s free current! Commoner like me has to pay for it.

having said that. Bihar man: lets talk of old bihar (now bihar+jharkhand) : u forgot the presence of Tatas and XLRI, its well known for mining, ex: ISM dhanbad and they have a presence in leather and other industries. ((what we see in news is only goondda-ism

Point being? TATA started way before Lallu or his goons laid their seige on Bihar. TATA started nearly 100 years back, way before India got independance. Ask TATA to start a company in Bihar today.

Take this, most IASofficers come from UP and Bihar !! y are u considering only software?

IAS officers et al. donot pay taxes to bihar government. Donot create employment. Donot contribute to economy.

talk abt all the industries. its only that south has choosen to be in the software sector and north has choosen to be in other sectors............

South doesnt have industries! Thats news to me. Anywya, we are talkin abt development I guess and the role government plays (not naidu in particular). India is still trying to come out of socialist era. There are not many industries outside PSU's to talk of. Its centers problem. Again, you can see what a reform oriented government can do. BJP has sold several PSU's they are continuing what PV Narasimha rao government started, but later stoppe bowin to pressure.

may be 20 yrs later, when third class jobs i.e., BPO and IT services jobs becomes not-so hot, may be then: u will realize that AP is not actually developing.........

Yeah, in 20 years development will not be as frentic as its today, Things saturate.

.i would classify anything other than development and design as third class, hence wipro, infosys, tcs, satyam fall in this third class category (TI or Cisco or Novell or Lucent or SAS etc as good companies)

If Narayana Murthy sees this statement, he will immediately liquidate Infosys because ZC thinks infosys is third class company! Sorry for being sarcastic, but who care what ZC thinks? Whats important is wealth creation and ease of wealth creation.
You may think that they are third class jobs, no one else does. And your reasoning that companies in R & D are good companies rest are coolies is flawed. India companies are relatively new in this field. At max they have 15 + years of experience and these companies chose to develop software for third parties rather than field their own products reason being its the easiest route to make money and establish in the market. Once you gain on experience you can start doing new things. But companies like Infosys, Wipro and TATA can never go into product decelopment, thats not their domain. They have grown so much that they cannot afford to divert their resources on product development and brand building. But there are otehr companies which have started doing that. Iflex for example provides complete banking solutions and one out of two major banks use that package. And there are scores of companies whihc have followed Iflex foot steps.
Just because the programs which we use are not developed by TCS, doesnt make it third class.
Who has written the code for Railway reservations?
Ship handling at Ports? Airline reservations? These are ll custom built software and this is where Indian expertise is.

and how many of the good companies are in HYD? hardly any !! and thats laughable when Naidu talks of tech revolution in the state !! u will immediately come up with MS and Oracle, where again these offices do not exactly do development work!! These jobs, BPO/servies etc can one day be shifted to interior Bihar when Lallo puts up an electricity line powered by the coal fileds of Dhanbad (its costly to work in HYD, Blore, Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai u see....cost cutting measures........be`es hazaar kaiko rey, Humara Bitwaa paanch hazaar mein kaam karega, pha`tak se !! then u sit and complain that Bihar is pulling off ur jobs from the metros, just as US is complaining that India is taking its jobs

Knowingly or unknowingly you agreed with me. If and when Lallu puts up a electrical line (government involvement - policy change) MS and ORacle will move away from Hyderabad. Till then Hyderabad it is!

(and Laloo can hire Deveshwar of ITC or Phanendra of Infosys or Banga of HLL and as advisors and venture into IT-parks, no-big deal, i guess UP is already doing that) but Tata and the industries wont come to AP when they have already set up there!!

Same again, IT-parks is the key word here. IT-park is not a park with ghaas-pus and some merry go rounds, its a special zone where companies get some special attention. Rewards for starting their branch as it provides emplyment to the locals and genertes Direct and indirect taxes.

to add: what i consider as a good job. It is that which/where 1.) u are happy with the work 2.) company is happy with ur work 3.) u r indispensible to thecompany. the third is the most imp and that is what is lcking in all these third class companies i mentioned. for now, people are happy with jumps, hikes and companies are unhappy with attrition......a few yrs from now, its bound to have over supply of workers coz everyone can do the job. our kibs can do the same job for far less salary than we, who want more salary !! forget about Phillipines, canada, Mexico, Brazil or eastern europe being a threat to India. Inside India, assam, bihar, rajasthan, orissa, chattisgarh will be a threat to Karnataka, AP, TN, maharashtra, delhi..............coz all u need is an airconditioned house with high connectivity to metros, then all metros will only have admistrative/head offices and the so called excellent jobs, will move to interior regions..........the day is not far away...........Bingo !! Bihar Zindabad !!

You have contradicted your own statement. The so called third class companies are facing problems from head hunters.

Anywya, let me give you an example of what a government can do or cannot do:

I am a CEO of a XYZ international company and I want to outsource my work to India. I have to choose a location to set a wholly owned subsidary (Ideally I want full control of my branch in India). So I look for

1. Availability of skilled people

2: Cheap land to start company

3. Ease of startin a wholly owned subsiday

4. Availability of power and connectivity

5. Stability (no goonda mawwali threatening employees and no clashes)

6. Tax structure

and add others depending on company.

Now lets see. Number is no problem in India. For money people will be willing to work in Andamans.

Number 2. Depends on the city.

3. is where the problem comes. Till recently Indian governm,ent didnt allow 100% ownership by foreign companiesan even today its not allowed ion certain areas. So if CBN decides to do away with that rule then the company will go to Ap. Thts how govt helps. Also in Indai a person has to fill 10 forms and get 10 licences to register a company.( In singapore, its a simple online application) This can be done away with and IIRC AP only needs 6 licences now, all available at one place (not sure). Check the AP infra devlp site.

4. Government need to promise that power will be supplied continuously. That means, government should recognise the said company as important for the economy and provide it special treatment. Needs policy change.

5. Government has to provide police protection to high value assets. Reason why Bihar doesnt have any major industries(multi nationals). Needs change in government policy.

6. Special tax treatment. Government can choose to waive tax as the said company is providing some X jobs creating emplyment and indirect taxes.



I just gave you four cases where government can act in favour of a company. This is not the best of the examples, but hope it helps in understanding what a government can do to attract investments.

This is precisely what CBN has done. This has been CBN govt agenda, to attract investment. Now whats Congress agenda? To give free power to farmers. If you see ysr's portal, he clearly says that Hitec city is a bane and Intl air port is a conspiracy. Anti-devlopment agenda.

[CtrlAltDel]

coming bak after a break of 2 weeks....i still see some really laffable arguements here...



i think ZC's resume was rejected in some of these "third-class" wealth creators and that explains his frustrations...



Mayavi....that was a great response...cudn't have put it better...

[zc]

Wrong Assumption and I dont agree. I gave you figures and if you think thats bad performance, then I cant help it. You have to keep in mind that Banglore and Noida had a head start.

ur data shows that we are 4th or 5th....will u say that we started late for another 20 yrs?

Bihar doesnt have electricity lines, poor state man!!

You are mistaken again. Bihar is not a poor state. Politics made it poor. Bihar has very rich natural resources. Bihar is whats feeding the countries thermal power plants and doesnt have enough electricity. What an irony. What could be the reason? Did u ever try to think of it?

"poor state man" was not poor in financial/money terms....the state of being poor/sympathizing..........i never said that they dont have electricity....infact what i said is...they have large potential.........

we have electricity lines but no electricity!! ha ha ha ha!!
Says who? Check the APGENCE and Transco sites. Nearly 97% of villages are electrified. That means they can atelast have a light bulb, that too at a subsidy. If you want everyone to have A/C then the state has to be sold to foreign country. Congress will do exactly that if it comes to power. Their election promisei s free current! Commoner like me has to pay for it.

i guess this summer heat and power cuts added to the heat will answer this.......they can have a bulb.....thats more or less equivalent to few candles !! and ur boasting abt that!!??!! do you have any data abt how many other states have regular power cuts ?? i would appreciate if you could provide.......atleast, i get a stare when i talk of power cuts in AP......

having said that. Bihar man: lets talk of old bihar (now bihar+jharkhand) : u forgot the presence of Tatas and XLRI, its well known for mining, ex: ISM dhanbad and they have a presence in leather and other industries. ((what we see in news is only goondda-ism
Point being? TATA started way before Lallu or his goons laid their seige on Bihar. TATA started nearly 100 years back, way before India got independance. Ask TATA to start a company in Bihar today.

TATA wont start a whole new industry...they will expand and that will be at already existing locations....thats very obviouos.....so, Naidu has to look into new people...hes definitely looking and promising that he will bring them.......and then........u know what happens.........

Take this, most IASofficers come from UP and Bihar !! y are u considering only software?
IAS officers et al. donot pay taxes to bihar government. Donot create employment. Donot contribute to economy.

we shall recommend that IAS be scrapped..........

talk abt all the industries. its only that south has choosen to be in the software sector and north has choosen to be in other sectors...........
South doesnt have industries! Thats news to me. Anywya, we are talkin abt development I guess and the role government plays (not naidu in particular). India is still trying to come out of socialist era. There are not many industries outside PSU's to talk of. Its centers problem. Again, you can see what a reform oriented government can do. BJP has sold several PSU's they are continuing what PV Narasimha rao government started, but later stoppe bowin to pressure.

did i say south doesnt have any industries at all? i dont think so.................outside PSUs there hardly any industries to talk of..........Reliance, tatas, Birlas, UB, pharamas are not PSUs....dont agree with ur statement

If Narayana Murthy sees this statement, he will immediately liquidate Infosys because ZC thinks infosys is third class company! Sorry for being sarcastic, but who care what ZC thinks? Whats important is wealth creation and ease of wealth creation.

he wont liquidate Infy but will agree that these are second class companies, if not thrid class as i said !! infact thats what he says......in a polished way though........

Once you gain on experience you can start doing new things. But companies like Infosys, Wipro and TATA can never go into product decelopment, thats not their domain. They have grown so much that they cannot afford to divert their resources on product development and brand building.

all i can say is

But there are otehr companies which have started doing that. Iflex for example provides complete banking solutions and one out of two major banks use that package. And there are scores of companies whihc have followed Iflex foot steps.

how many of these people work in AP? ....we started late i guess

and how many of the good companies are in HYD? hardly any !! and thats laughable when Naidu talks of tech revolution in the state !! u will immediately come up with MS and Oracle, where again these offices do not exactly do development work!! These jobs, BPO/servies etc can one day be shifted to interior Bihar when Lallo puts up an electricity line powered by the coal fileds of Dhanbad (its costly to work in HYD, Blore, Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai u see....cost cutting measures........be`es hazaar kaiko rey, Humara Bitwaa paanch hazaar mein kaam karega, pha`tak se !! then u sit and complain that Bihar is pulling off ur jobs from the metros, just as US is complaining that India is taking its jobs

Knowingly or unknowingly you agreed with me. If and when Lallu puts up a electrical line (government involvement - policy change) MS and ORacle will move away from Hyderabad. Till then Hyderabad it is!

(and Laloo can hire Deveshwar of ITC or Phanendra of Infosys or Banga of HLL and as advisors and venture into IT-parks, no-big deal, i guess UP is already doing that) but Tata and the industries wont come to AP when they have already set up there!!

Same again, IT-parks is the key word here. IT-park is not a park with ghaas-pus and some merry go rounds, its a special zone where companies get some special attention. Rewards for starting their branch as it provides emplyment to the locals and genertes Direct and indirect taxes.

can u guarantee that 10 to 15 yrs from now jobs wont move away from metros into interior regions ? thats inevitable man....TILL THEN HYD IT IS!!! this is the problem frankly.....u are thinking of HYD today and tomorrow....i am thinking abt next week........and thats what Naidu has to think instead of blowing his trumpet........

You have contradicted your own statement. The so called third class companies are facing problems from head hunters.
Anywya, let me give you an example of what a government can do or cannot do:
I am a CEO of a XYZ international company and I want to outsource my work to India. I have to choose a location to set a wholly owned subsidary (Ideally I want full control of my branch in India). So I look for etc etc etc

not contradictory man, u will probably agree that when real estate picks up, labour is hard to find and time will solve the problem, in this case 2 or three years........agreed with everything (ur list of options abt what a companies looks into when extablishing for teh first time)........after they have established in say, HYD, they will look for outsourcing to low cost places again.....so, they wont remain in HYD.....now, when UP is trying to form a triangle between lucknow, kanpur and allahabad and other states are also beginning to act in the same fashion......they will eat into the small piece of pie we have, again............whatz the guarantee that these software companies wont migrate elsewhere......thats what i said...no big deal......jobs created are those that stay........like the other industries.....not those which migrate from time to time.......MM: good points though !! what i said, time will tell and over a cup of tea with ur grandchild....u will agree (then) that what i said is actually true......... if software expands like this (with a hunger for electricity) in AP with no new power plants coming up, rest of AP will have to put up with lots and lots of power cuts.........probably schools and colleges will see only PCs but cant actually use them!! ha ha ha!! .............ask a CEO, if he would like to expand in a place which reaches 50C..........thats y i say, and u would have got it from my postings........Naidu shud concentrate elsewhere and not HYD only........else he has the risk of killing the industry.......and CADel: u are free to assume anything...........all u can do is that....

[ZC]

Lets take bihar for example, the richest state in India - natural resources wise - why is there no satyam or infosys? Forget satyam and Infosys, there are no roads and no electricity outside patna.

i reiterated ur statement by saying "bihar doesnt have electricity" and sympathised saying "poor state man".........may be now i am clear.....

[ZC]

India is still trying to come out of socialist era. There are not many industries outside PSU's to talk of. Its centers problem.

fyi MM, to clear ur myth, no hard feelings: taken from http://in.rediff.com/money/2004/mar/24quiz.htm The central public sector employs about 2 million (20 lakh) people in India. The sectors that have a sizable number of employees are coal, steel, textiles and engineering. ............railway as u know is largest employer in the world with approx 2million or a bit more. even if we assume that 50 million are employed by the PSU and govt put together.......thats abt 10% percent of working population assuming half the population is working......its not only centers problem, but the states problem as well.........major portion of the remaining are from agriculture background and when these people are slowing leaving that and coming to cities........it becomes a major state problem........not a central problem........from the creation of slums and the problem they create etc etc........u would agree that Mumbai takes care of itself, not the center.....so the emphasis is to be laid on state and not centre only......and in 0.8 million software etc people in India, u say 0.2 million are in AP......and in a population of abt 75 million in AP, assume there are 35 million working people...........creating jobs for 0.2/35 = 0.6% of the population and always talking abt it is definitely called blowing his trumpet............................ridiculous !! (by working i mean, eligible to work, and hence 50% of population is working is a fair assumption)

[ZC]

for that 0.6% also, credit shud go to Ramalinga raju and others and not Naidu

[azazel]

for that 0.6% also, credit shud go to Ramalinga raju and others and not Naidu

OK dude, u made yer point loud n clear..

who're u gonna vote for then?

[ZC]

OK dude, u made yer point loud n clear..
who're u gonna vote for then?

any eunuch contecting polls in AP this time

[azazel]

any eunuch contecting polls in AP this time

, shabnam mausi will be pround of U

[ZC]

, shabnam mausi will be pround of U

great they come to bless when a child is born and during marriage theyll bless me always

[CtrlAltDel]

OK dude, u made yer point loud n clear..
who're u gonna vote for then?

any eunuch contecting polls in AP this time

good idea!



maybe i'll ask Naidu to lose his "family jewels" so dat he'll get yr vote this time

[azazel]

^

[Mayavi Morpheus]

ZC, I think you need to calm down and read your own psots. I dunno what you are trying to prove. I am having a hard time understanding your posts. What myth are u trying to bust here?

fyi MM, to clear ur myth, no hard feelings

and hence 50% of population is working is a fair assumption)

How many people do you ahve in ut family? How many are working?

[ZC]

How many people do you ahve in ut family? How many are working?

ok dude, rested...........3/3. .....if i count everyone i know, its more than 50% !!

[ZC]

ZC, I think you need to calm down and read your own psots. I dunno what you are trying to prove. I am having a hard time understanding your posts. What myth are u trying to bust here?

u said............there are hardly any jobs outside PSUs.......and that its centers problem........... nyway..........

[Mayavi Morpheus]

How many people do you ahve in ut family? How many are working?

ok dude, rested...........3/3. .....if i count everyone i know, its more than 50% !!

Great! India has 100% workforce and 0% unemplyment! Now Naidu can blow his trumpet, tabla and whateve he wants.

[ZC]

(by working i mean, eligible to work, and hence 50% of population is working is a fair assumption)

boss, read my previously one completely, workforce 50% meaning those who are eligible to work !! u can count in housewives who sit at home having a degree

[CtrlAltDel]

a doubt: do u count people in criminal professions as 'Employed' or 'Unemployed'...if they are 'Employed' then India's proportion of unemployed just plunged down a good degree!

[ZC]

a doubt: do u count people in criminal professions as 'Employed' or 'Unemployed'...if they are 'Employed' then India's proportion of unemployed just plunged down a good degree!

good question. i guess ur in a better position to answer the question urself

[azazel]

i figure, criminals ought to b under employed but tax-exempt bracket but in that way, almost all the govt machinery will go under that..

[CtrlAltDel]

good question. i guess ur in a better position to answer the question urself

in dat case i call em Gainfully Employed

criminals ought to b under employed but tax-exempt bracket but in that way, almost all the govt machinery will go under that..

Gainfully Employed with a Tax Holiday and subsidised by the powers that be!

[azazel]

[Mayavi Morpheus]

boss, read my previously one completely, workforce 50% meaning those who are eligible to work !! u can count in housewives who sit at home having a degree

I am speechless.

ZC, a humble request, please backup ur figures. If you dont have any source to bakup ur figures, explain us why you think the figure is justified. Should I accept that 50% of pop is eligible to work just because ZC said so. Whats the rationale behind that number?

What is the percentage of population above 15 years?

How many of them are educated to get a decent job, the kinda jobs we are talking about - non labour?

Check the Indian census and then comeback with figures and defend ur number.