India and Pakistan Zindabad!

[ChicagoDesi]

I must admit Mayavi that you have done a lot of research on this, and I\'ve never said that Pakistan was squeaky clean and innocent,but what im trying to say is what is our future going to be?? i\'ve never said that the Kashmir issue is going to be easily resolved,but the longer it takes for both governments to resolve, the more innocent people will be killed..and I totally agree that it\'s totally wrong how the people in the Pakistani armed forces get the best land and education and everything, and it pisses me off how they call themselves muslim and yet they do things totally unislamic such as raping women and whatnot..and they will get what they deserve because NOWHERE in islam does it say that you can discriminate against other religions or go bomb and kill innocent people..it is the extremists who give Islam a bad name.

[archana]

Mayavi was right in everything he posted here about islamic terrorism. and if you want to know about the Koran talking about peace with kafirs, READ at this link
<br>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/3425/page185.htm
<br>
<br>I\'m adding a bit of what is in it below::
<br>Instructions to Muslims about Unbelievers
<br>
<br>Koran 9:29 Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the jiziya (poll tax) with the hand of humility.
<br>
<br>So here Prophet Mohammed is instructing a true Muslim to fight people of other religions until the unbelievers debase themselves and pay tax for their existence. So the greatness of Islam is revealed only when followers of other religions are humiliated.
<br>
<br>Koran 8:12 Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): \"I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them.\" Here Mohammed is giving step by step instruction on how to torture and kill Kafirs if they don\'t follow Islam.
<br>
<br>Koran 9:5 \"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.\"
<br>
<br>In the above verse Prophet Mohammed is clearly instructing his followers to kill the idolaters in any brutal way possible until the idolaters submit themselves to Islam. Allah is indeed merciful !!
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<br>Koran 9:73 Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.
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<br>Here Mohammed is trying to justify his brutal acts. He conveniently claims divine justification for the expression of his hatred by saying Allah himself revealed to him personally that people of other religions are evil and belong in Hell. Therefore, according to Mohammed any barbaric act against the unbelievers is completely justified.
<br>
<br>Koran 4:144 Believers, do not choose the unbelievers rather than the faithful as your friends. Would you give Allah a clear proof against yourselves ?
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<br>This verse clearly states that a Muslim can only befriend a Muslim. Mohammed in order to ensure that his followers will not befriend and get influenced by people of other religions, revealed this verse. This verse illustrates that if a Muslim befriends a Non-Muslim than the wrath of Allah will be on him. Therefore in Islam, people of other religions should be treated with contempt,disrespect and cruelty.
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<br>Koran 47:4 When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens.
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<br>In the above verse, Mohammed is giving detailed instruction about how to maim and torture unbelievers in Jihad. And finally when the Muslims are satisfied enough after torturing and maiming the unbelievers, they should proceed to demand ransom for the captives. All for the sake for all-merciful Allah !!
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<br>Koran 5:33-34 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that
<br>
<br>Allah is Forgiving, merciful.
<br>
<br>In this verse, Mohammed devises another recipe for torturing unbelievers. This particular recipe involves chopping off alternate limbs and expelling the Kafirs (people following other religions) out of the land.
<br>
<br>Instructions to Muslims regarding Christians and Jews
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<br>Prophet Mohammed has reserved special position for certain sects of Unbelievers in his so called \"Holy Book\" Koran. Those unbelievers are none other than followers of Christianity and Judaism. I have selected few verses from Koran to display what Muslims are taught and instructed as far as treating Christians and Jews is concerned.
<br>
<br>Koran 5:51 Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrong-doers.
<br>
<br>In this verse Prophet Mohammed is clearly instructing his followers never to befriend a Christian or a Jew. Because if they take a Christian or a Jew as a friend, they will commit a wrong deed and Allah\'s wrath will be on them.
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<br>Koran 5:57 Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made your religion a jest and a pastime... Here \"those who were given the Book before you\" refers to Christians and Jews. Once again Mohammed is warning Muslims of all time never to befriend a Christian or a Jew.
<br>
<br>Koran 5:64The Jews say: \'God\'s hand is chained.\' May their own hands be chained! May they be cursed for what they say!... In the above verse Prophet Mohammed is showing his deep respect for the Jews.
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<br>Koran 9:29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last day, nor hold the forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jiziyah with willing submission. And feel themselves subdued.
<br>
<br>Here \'People of the Book\' refers to Christians and Jews. The \'Religion Of Truth\' refers to Islam. So in the above verse Prophet Mohammed is instructing Muslims to fight and torture Christians and Jews (who do not believe in Islamic version of God) until they pay tax to Muslims for their existence. Muslims are also strictly instructed to make the Christians and Jews feel \'subdued\'. Allah is truly benign !!!
<br>
<br>Koran 9:30 The Jews call \'Uzayr-a son of God\', and the Christians call \'Christ the Son Of God\'. That is a saying from their mouth; (In this) they but intimate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah\'s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth.
<br>
<br>Here Prophet Mohammed is wishing that Allah\'s curse be on Jews and Christians. And what did the Christians and Jews do for such special favour from Allah ? All they did is that out of respect and love, they called their Prophets \'son of God\'.
<br>
<br>Islamic Hell and Unbelievers
<br>
<br>Now we will enter the Islamic Hell brought into existence by Mohammed\'s hallucination and weird imagination.
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<br>Koran 98:1-8 The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.
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<br>Here \"People of The Book\" refers to Christians and Jews. So according to Prophet Mohammed, Christians, Jews and pagans are the vilest of all creatures in the world. Islam in deed holds a high respect for people of other religions !!
<br>
<br>Koran 22:19-22:23 Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: \'Taste the torment of the Conflagration!\'
<br>
<br>Here Mohammed has imagined vividly how people of other religions will be punished in Hell. By his sick and disgusting imagination, he is trying to make sure that people of other religions convert to Islam out of sheer terror of Hell. And if this terror doesn\'t work, then the Muslims are always instructed to convert unbelievers to Islam brutally by force in Jihad.
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<br>Koran 18:28-30 For the wrongdoers We have prepared a fire which will encompass them like the walls of a pavilion. When they cry out for help they shall be showered with water as hot as molten brass, which will scald their faces. Evil shall be their drink, dismal their resting-place.
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<br>Who are the \"wrong-doers\" here ? None other than the people who DO NOT follow Islam. So Prophet Mohammed here continues with his hallucination and gives the description of Islamic Hell in the form of a revelation.
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<br>Koran 40:67-40:73 Do you not see how those who dispute the revelation of God turn away from the right path ? Those who have denied the Book and the message We sent through Our apostles shall realize the truth hereafter: when, with chains and shackles round their necks, they shall be dragged through scalding water and then burnt in the fire of Hell.
<br>
<br>Prophet Mohammed here explains what will happen to those people who choose NOT to follow his revelation \"Quran\"- a manual of plunder, rape and murder. So for people of other religions following scriptures other than Quran, Allah has pre-planned punishment. First they shall be dragged through scalding water with chains around their necks and then they will be burnt in the fire of Hell. Allah is truly merciful !!
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<br>Koran 43:74 ..The unbelievers shall endure forever the torment of Hell. The punishment will never be lightened, and they shall be speechless with despair. We do not wrong, themselves.
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<br>Mohammed was not satisfied by just having burnt the unbelievers once in Hell. So here he is saying that the punishment is never-ending and people following other religions will be burnt in Hell forever.
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<br>Koran 55:41-52 ..That is the Hell which the unbelievers deny. They shall wander between fire and water fiercely seething. Which of your Lord\'s blessing would you deny ?
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<br>Koran 76:1-5 For the unbelievers We have prepared chains and fetters and a blazing Fire...
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<br>Koran 73:12 We have in store for the unbelievers heavy fetters and a blazing fire, choking food and harrowing torment: on the day when the earth shall quiver with all its mountains, and the mountains crumble into heaps of shifting sand.
<br>
<br>Once again, in the above verses, Mohammed is emphasizing that heavy fetters, choking food and hell fire are in store for the unbelievers while the Muslims enjoy the beautiful virgins and young boys in Islamic Paradise.
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<br>Koran 77:20-77:50 Woe on that day to the disbelievers! Begone to the Hell which you deny! Depart into the shadow that will rise high in three columns, giving neither shade nor shelter from the flames, and throwing up sparks as huge as towers, as bright as yellow camels...Eat and enjoy yourselves awhile. You are wicked men...\"
<br>
<br>In the above verse, Prophet Mohammed is making sure that the people of other religions do not get any shade or shelter when they are burnt up in the Islamic Hell. Allah is also revealing to him that all people other than Muslims are basically wicked in nature.
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<br>Koran 8:73 The unbelievers give aid and comfort to each other. If you fail to do likewise, there will be disorder in the land and great corruption.
<br>
<br>The Great Mohammed divided the Arabian society in two tight compartments: Momins and Kafirs. The word momin means believer in Mohammed and Allah. In contrast a kafir is a non-believer. The momins did not have to be better men than the Kafirs in terms of character or consciousness. Momins had only to recite the Kalima (incantation)- \"there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his Prophet.\" By doing that the \'momins\' become qualified to kill as many kafirs as they could or pleased, looting and burning their belongings and enslaving their women and children in the process. In the above verse, Prophet Mohammed once again is telling his followers to help each other in banning up against unbelievers (people of other religions)
<br>
<br>Koran 21:96-21:101 ..The unbelievers shall stare in amazement, crying: \'Woe to us! Of this we have been heedless. We have done wrong.\' You and your idols shall be the fuel of Hell; therein you sall all go down.
<br>
<br>This verse is another instance which displays the deep respect Islam shows towards other religions. Here Prophet Mohammed is stating that people who choose to represent God by idols will be burnt in hell along with their idols. Islam is truly compassionate towards other religions !!
<br>
<br>Koran 33:7-12 ...But for the unbelievers He has prepared a woeful punishment... Here, we find the same old blabbering by Mohammed once again regarding how unbelievers will be punished.
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<br>Koran 44:40-49 ..The fruit of the Zaqqum tree shall be the unbelievers\'s fruit. Like dregs of oil, like scalding water, it shall simmer in his belly. A voice will cry: \'Seize him and drag him into the depths of Hell. Then pour out scalding water over his head, saying: \"Taste this, illustrious and honorable man! This is the punishment which you have doubted.\"
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<br>Koran 52:1-52:15 ..On that day they shall be sternly thrown into the fire of Hell, and a voice will say to them: \'This is the Fire which you denied...Burn in its flames. It is the same whether or not you show forbearance. You shall be rewarded according to your deeds.\'
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<br>Koran 31-37 And burn ye him in the blazing fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits. This was he that would not believe in allah Most high and would not encourage the feeding of the indignant. So no friend hath he here this day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds.
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<br>Koran 56:52-56 Ye shall surely taste of the tree Zaqqum. Then will ye fill your insides therewith, and drink boiling water on top of it. Indeed ye shall drink like diseased camels raging with thirst. Such will be their entertainment on the day of Requital!
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<br>Koran 69:30-37 We shall say: \'Lay hold of him and bind him. Burn him in the fire of Hell, then fasten him with a chain seventy cubits long. For he did not believe Allah the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched. Today he shall be friendless here; filth shall be his food, the filth which sinners eat...
<br>
<br>The above five verses contain detail description of various kinds of punishments people of other religions will undergo in Islamic Hell. They display the true respect Prophet Mohammed had for people who were not following Islam. And through these verses, Koran (the manual for plunder, rape and murder) which is treated as a timeless scripture by Muslims, teaches how lowly people of other religions should be treated by Muslims regardless of time or space.
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<br>Koran 2:39 Those who reject faith shall be the companions of the Fire.
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<br>Koran 2:89-90 The curse of Allah is on the unbelievers... humiliating is the punishment.
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<br>Koran 13:13 ..He hurls his thunderbolts at whom he pleases Yet the unbelievers wrangle about Allah..
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<br>Koran 58:5 Those who resist Allah and his messenger will be humbled to dust.
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<br>Koran 70:15-16 The fire of Hell will pluck out his being right to the skull..
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<br>Koran 5:10 As for those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are the heirs of Hell.
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<br>The summary of the above six verses is that a person following any religion other than Islam, is automatically assigned to Hell. His good thoughts, good actions or piety are of no value until and unless he follows Islam. So if in this life, a person does not follow Islam and does not believe in Islamic scripture, Allah will store Hell-Fire, Hot water, Molten brass, thunderbolts and other humiliating punishments in the life hereafter for him.
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<br>Koran 70:39 We have created the unbelievers out of base matters.
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<br>So here Prophet Mohammed claims that all the people of other religions are basically useless and evil because they are made up of base matters. But the same people become Allah\'s favorite and become capable of earning Houris and young boys when they convert to Islam.
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<br>It is fascinating to observe that nowhere in the Gita or Ramayan or Vedas or Upanisads or even Dhammapada of the Buddha, does one encounter threats against other paths or creeds.
<br>
<br>A book like the Bhagavad-gita seems like an owners-manual for the Soul.
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<br>The Koran is filled with hate and threats on every page, and very little that is really spiritual. The entire reward for being a devout Muslim is described as an eternity of rivers of wine and sex with supernatural Houris.

[JustaLittleUnwell]

Yaaaaaawwwwwnnnnnnn *ppl putting me to sleep so early in the morning*

[archana]

yes, putting Kafirs permanently puts you off to sleep early in the morning. no wonder the osamas and saddams sleep a lot nowadays!!

[archana]

yes, PUTTING KAFIRS PERMANENTLY TO SLEEP puts you to sleep early in the morning. no wonder the osamas and saddams sleep a lot nowadays!!

[Mayavi Morpheus]

LOl, I expected a better counter from someone who knows how important pakistan is for India to prosper. So much for candle holding, is that all you could muster? Chicago desi: The reason why I typed that lengthy post is to show that all is not right with pakistan and its not a simple issue. I hate it when people do the equal-equal thing. India is not to blame for any of the current problems, India did all it could do to solve kashmir, now its upto paksitan to take corrective measures, mend the ties and behave. I wont mind even if you say China Zindabad, we had a war with them, we still have a border dispute with them, they support terrorrists in NE states, yet we are trying to make peace and they are reciprocating. That sort of will is missing on paksitan side. So till they change, please hold the \\\'Pakistan Zindabad\\\'.

[CtrlAltDel]

HEY BHAGWAN..!
<br>
<br>i just wanted to know why i have to hate my educated, secular (Morphy\'s words) pakistani friends and i get a long lesson on History and Quran!
<br>
<br>I never said Pakistan is innocent of crimes against india or the world or i never said we have to ease our guard.
<br>nor have i said \"pakistan zindabad\".
<br>
<br>Morphy\'s historical account is right and he is right in saying that fundamentalists across the border are encouraging pakistanis to hate india. but the reality is that they are taken seriously mainly by illiterates and the unemployed, who are in no small number, and it is mainly they who join in the \"jehad\" campaigns.
<br>
<br>ones who are educated dont take the mullahs seriously and like nothing better than enjoying a good relationship with india.
<br>
<br>it is the same case in india too. ISI actively encourages poor and unemployed muslims to turn anti-india and it is they who bring bad name to the rest of the Indian muslims. the best way to foil ISI plans is to educate poor muslims and lift them economically, not marginalising them. more we are antagonistic to indian muslims, the more ISI seems like a friend in their eyes.
<br>
<br>i havent read the quran, but even if it says all the things mentioned above (shocking i must say!), i am sure the educated muslims dont take them seriously. i know this coz i have many close muslim friends in hyderabad. couple of my ex-girlfriends in college days have been muslims...if this does not prove my idea, what does...??!!!!!!
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<br>those verses of quran are what the fundamentalists must be using to brainwash the guillible.
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<br>anyway, their idea of paradise sound good...!!!! no wonder the mullahs are getting many volunteer jihadis by the dozens!!!

[ChicagoDesi]

Well to the person who listed all the quotes from the Quran, I see that you just picked a few quotes without reading the WHOLE sentence..If that\'s the case, then I can go ahead and pick out quotes from the Bible or any other holy book and make it look as if its the most bloodiest and violent book in the world..so don\'t go around picking a few quotes here and there and say that all islam teaches is violence...and to mayevi, so basically you\'re saying that India is totally clean and did nothing wrong at all with the kashmir issue..i say bullshit cuz i say it\'s BOTH sides who have made mistakes...just cuz im Indian doesn\'t mean i turn a blind eye to whatever India does.

[archana]

CtrlAltDel, I appreciate your sincere efforts in friendship, but unfortunately it is too late - too much has happened. The current generation of pakis are fed on a staple diet of hatred for india and americans of indian origin. we cannot extend any more friendship or peace olive leaves.
<br>
<br>And moreover you know what? You said that ISI hires illiterate people. Look at the september 11 attacks. All those terrorists were highly educated, innovative, creative and literate students. Even in the ISI attacks in India, many of them are professors, students, leaders.. and they are definitely NOT illiterate, cuz most of the time they outwit the indian police and kill dozens in a single assault.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Control bhai, that piece of history is for those people who think that the India-pakistan problem is only due to Kashmir, which it is not. Its for those people who think that the fault lies with India as much as it lies with pakistan, which is not true.
<br>No where did I say that every Indian should hate pakis, just because they ar pakis, but please donot, donot say \'pakistan Zindabad\' on Indian forums atleast [for those who said so]. There may be good pakis (I know a few, they are good fellows, watch Indian movies more than Indians do, help Indians) but they donot represent the whole pakistani community or nation, just like few traitors in India (muslims or Hindus) donot represent whole of India. The people on other side of border who hate India and Indians woefully outnumber those who want peace.
<br>
<br>
<br>Archana: All Internet versions of any religious book donot represent the correct version, if you really want to understand whats in Khoran, read authentic translations. Its not right to muck up other religion or religious texts without understanding the context or significance of whats said.What does it take Bal Thackrey to put up an english version of Khoran according to his understanding?
<br>
<br>
<br>Chicago Desi: Please back up what you said with proof, that thing about what India did in Kashmir not being right. I do agree that supporting the highly rigged 1985 (?) elections in which Farooq abdullah won is GOI\'s fault. But thats out internal matter and has nothing to do with pakistan. So I stand by my original statement that India did nothing wrong wrt pakistan.

[JustaLittleUnwell]

Mayavi Morpheus, I guess I\'m the \'person\' whom you referred to, in your post. It is not my job to \'counter\' every trash that I come across, knowing fully well that such \'countering\' is going to result in the generation of more trash (from my experience in the AIT thread). Maybe if I am paid for such efforts, I could consider that. However, it is within my democratic rights to call a spade a spade (or a trash a trash) and move on, which is what I\'ve chosen to do. Thank you.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Yeah Justa, that was directed at you. Call a spade a spade (You are one of the candle holders right, its not an insult BTW), but what does \'Yawn\' mean? Either you completely agree with something or partially agree or totally disagree, neither of these can be expressed by the word \'yawn\'. You could have chosen to keep quiet instead of posting that silly little message. And for the trash part, nothing which I wrote was my personal opinion, it is history (not the saffron kind you think, its actual history. Yes, the 65 and 71 wars really happened and the Hindutva vadis are not lying!)
<br>And I am surprised that you brought up AIT discussion here and even more surprised by your choice of word \'trash\' for the discussion. I thought it was informative and educating till the point you started throwing insults and adding Hindutva to everything. Seems you are nursing some grouse agaisnt me. Take it easy pal.

[JustaLittleUnwell]

Mayavi, let me start from the end and \'counter\' for one last time (even though it\'s not going to serve this discussion):
<br>
<br>Firstly, I do not have any grouse against you or anyone else in this board. I hardly know anyone, and if at all I argue in a heated manner, it is against the opinions expressed.
<br>
<br>Secondly, reg. the AIT thread - it was probably informative. But I still call it trash because after a point there was no discussion, but people saying the same things again and again. At that point I wanted to respectfully disagree and bury the dead horse. Then the insults started coming from your side (yes) about insufficient intellectual capabilities / parrotting what rediff coloumnists say and so on. We are not here to exercise our intellect, but to post our views. I do have a stated position about this divisive Hindutva philosophy, and I will continue to oppose it, whether you like it or not.
<br>
<br>Reg. History / Geography / Civics and the likes, we all know that all kind of brutalities were practised from our pre-historic times. We learn about them so that we become wiser from that experience - not to become hatemongers. Countries that were worse enemies are today wonderfully cooperating in the world stage. We (as in, the warring parties) need to sort out our differences and move on. That way we will be doing a service to ourselves and the coming generations too, instead of all of us going up in nuclear smoke.
<br>
<br>Reg. my yawning, I had a late night, and was looking forward to start the day with some inspiring thoughts, but was instead fed boring history and geography lessons. In my situation you also would\'ve yawned

[archana]

JustaLittleUnwell, let me say something here. India keeps moving forward every year (even though the speed is not too good) but pakistan moves backward every single day - so you know where pakistan stands now.
<br>
<br>as far as pakistan is concerned, there is NO HISTORY, cuz their future is gonna be more backwards as the present; and their present more backwards than their past.
<br>
<br>regarding peace between nations, there are more strifes with pakistan day after day. these problems are not something that can be eliminated with the wave of a magic wand. their mentality is so screwed and messed up.
<br>
<br>For your information, a country is not known for what it USED TO BE, or for WHAT it is SUPPOSED TO BE. same goes with its people. the mass majority of them want war; they dont want only kashmir, but also the whole of india ultimately, and then try to take over the US..
<br>
<br>one of my friends who had the paki bf is an american of pakistani origin. her bf is a pakistani fresh-of-boat (fresh-of-boat is a term we give to indians/pakis who have just left their countries, like what you call us abcd) During their relnship, she told me what pakistanis thought of other coutnries, esp india and the US, and if I type all that here, I\'m sure fullhyderabad members will take the next lahore bus and kill the sons of la\' whore.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Justa, if I were to \'yawn\' to your message (where are trying to express your opinion, seriously) how would you feel?
<br>
<br>Regarding AIT thread and Hindutva, they are two different things and you were mixing them. I dont care what your stand is on Hindutva philosophy, its not my problem and I dont have any interest in it, I was discussing AIT and you were repeatedly referring to Hindutva vadis. That has come up in several posts, not just one post. Just imagine how would you feel if I were to write \'Paksitan Murdabad\' in every post of mine when discussing food? They are unrelated things.
<br>
<br>Regarding past conflicts:
<br>1.British ruled us till 1947. Today we have good relations with Britan. No one hates britan and I definitely donot ask for my kohinoor.
<br>2. We had a war with China in 1962. We put it behind us and now we have good relations with China. We even had a naval excercise with china last month and we ahve trade with them. There is no difference between paksitan and China, China claims eastern indian state, pakistan claims northern indian state. We had a war with both countries. Both countries actively sponsor terrorrism in India (kashmir and NE rebels). yet we have good relations with China and not with paksitan, why?
<br>
<br>That should provide an answer for my stand on pakistan. Following Gandhi principle of showing the other cheek when slapped on one doesnt help here. We have showed the other cheek and got slapped on it too. Now we dont have the third cheek, even Gandhi couldnt have imagined this situation.
<br>
<br>The solution is ignoring paksitan and moving ahead, and not \'Zindabading\' pakistan. Yeah, peace is good provided the other side is willing, but precisely this is what is lacking on the other side and that piece of history is to demonstrate the same. If tommorrow pakistans foreign policy changes suddenly by allahs grace and centers more around pakistans development rather than destruction of India, then I would be the first person to talk about peace.
<br>

[headless_kross]

who is this strong lady
<br>peace please

[jammer]

<br>
<br>hey archana, I could\'hv been your faan too, let me share a few finer points with you. This is a proven fact that many people are guided by the Holy Quran at the same time many people are MISGUIDED or distanced by the Book. I want to be very humble with you to make you feel.
<br>FYI Caliph Umar was a staunch enemy of Islam in the early days of Islam, so much so that one day he set out to kill the Prophet (pbuh) but as luck would have it, on the way he passed near his own sisters house and was shocked and furious to hear the holy verses being read. He broke the door and started beating his sister and knokced her down, then he felt sorry and spoke to her, she told him the verses and immediately he accepted Islam.
<br>But if you notice Prophets own Unlce Abu Lahab did not accept Islam till his last breath and died as a non-muslim, so even the Prophet could not convince him.
<br>best of luck to you...

[archana]

Jammer:
<br>
<br>Your message is a little unrelated to what I have been posting. Or are you suggesting that I adopt Islam?
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<br>In any case, if it appears that I sound anti-Islam, well thats a wrong impression you have formed in your mind. My friend Yasmin sits with me half the time I post stuff in here; she\'s an american of pak origin and fortunately she has nothing to do with pakland. I have respect for Islam, but not for those who abuse it to fight with other nations and cultures. If I were an Islam hater, would I have traveled all those miles to attend the anti-Iraq war in DC?? My hatred is for those who use religion to incite their followers to attack people of other countries.. this includes pakland as a whole, palestine, israel too, and those who incite religion based riots in India, esp those in the Charminar side in Hyd.

[?]

Arch ana and archana: two faces of a coin ?

[jammer]

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<br>Hi archana, my msg is relevant, I am saying that you have extensively quoted the translated verses of Quran in your above posts, so by doing this you are distancing yourself further with the holy book. And you can not adopt Islam as it is not some kind of Pet or something. My personal reading is that you will need much more time to know these things.

[archana]

ok jammer, I thought of not posting any more messages but here\'s my last one..
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<br>you say I am distancing myself from the koran?? how would you say that? is it wrong to analyse the contents of the koran and find the faults in it??
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<br>ok assume it is faultless (cuz I know ppl are issued fatwas for not blindly following it) but then when you find such blatant statements such as \"kill/mutiliate non-moslems\", does that not make you shudder for at least a second and not analyze them again?
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<br>many have found faults with the koran. tasleema nasreen asked why can\'t a woman have 4 husbands when a man can have 4 wives and she has been targetted by the moronic fundamentalists. is this fair?? just saying that \"oh the koran is right because it is right\" is GROSSLY wrong.
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<br>the gita and other holy books may have similar things about polygamy etc, but do we follow them nowadays?? krishna had 10,000 concubines, many others had children out of wedlock, etc. but do we blindly follow what they did without checking if it is MORALLY correct or sensible?? why do we have laws banning polygamy?? if you follow the koran as it is, without applying your brain, you will end up being the most intolerant community in the world (which is technically a fact now).
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<br>to wind it up, look at galelio and other great people. they challenged the current law of the land with their beliefs, and were punished cruelly, but today we are enjoying the fruits of what they did because of their questioning.. by not questioning you are only distancing yourself away from the reality, not the other way round.