Pak - I see a potential friend!

by ZC » Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:30 am

We are enemies and that is reason enough to work towards being friends. I don\'t understand how Kashmir matters to a common man. It\'s a political problem and all leaders of both nationalities should be shot dead. The problem will be solved automatically. That, of course, is not possible. I was in Europe and was lost one day. One man has walked along with me for a couple of hundred meters and left me when I could actually see my destination. He couldn\'t speak anything other than Urdu, probably a bit of Hindi. He had a smiling face and was a Pakistani. This is just one example where I had a very good experience with Pak nationals. I am sure people here will come up with bad experiences, but please stop it. My advice is, put everything behind and keep smiling and suffocate them with our love. What the BJP is doing, I like very much. More people to people relationships before we talk on Kashmir. Very good.

by ZC » Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:33 am

Overwhelm, instead of suffocate, would be appropriate :-)

.

by **Ali** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 4:16 pm

Ya I agree some what with u ZC,that leaders on both side donot want actually to solve this problem,bcos if they solve it they will not have an issue to diycuss in international affairs but its costing a huge amount for us, Indians,we need to spend lot of many on the defence,and many of our soldiers died . Many of our poor people are deing without proper food also,30% Indians are below poverty line,but no one is focusing their,if we have good relation with our neighbours we can use that money for our development and upliftment of poor people

by **Mayavi Morpheus** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:47 am

Right! This is what is happeing in Kashmir.
 Sep 20
 
 * 8 Paki pigs including Jaish, Lashkar and Harkat commanders killed. Akshardham, Nadimarg planners were among the commanders killed.
 
 * 2 JeM pigs and 2 Jawans killed in Rajouri encounter
 
 * LeT comdr among 4 terrorists killed
 
 * BSF kills 2 Paki infiltrators in Udhampur
 
 Sep 21
 
 * Top RAW officer among 3 killed in VCR blast in Rajouri
 
 * Terrorists kill husband-wife for being informers
 
 * 2 top jihadis, JCO killed in Poonch encounter
 
 * 7 militants killed in Kupwara
 
 * Pigs kill woman informer
 
 * LeT comdr among 4 pigs killed near Jammu
 
 * Two terrorists, civilian killed in Surankote
 
 Sep 22
 
 * 5 infiltrators gunned down in Mendhar sector
 
 Sep 23
 
 * 3 pigs, jawan killed in encounters
 
 * Terrorists kill Father-Son duo for co-operation with police
 
 * 4 terrorists, 1 soldier killed in the valley
 
 Sep 24
 
 * LeT pigs kill 2 local jihadis who were about to surrender
 
 * 1 Hizb and 1 LeT jihadi surrender in Doda
 
 * JCO, ex-jihadi killed in Valley
 
 Sep 25
 
 * 4 pigs, Army Havildar killed as troops foil infiltration bid in Mendhar sector
 
 * 4 Paki pigs killed in Kupwara
 
 Sep 26
 
 * 300 kg RDX seized from Ambassador car in Doda as 3 terrorists are eliminated
 
 Sep 27
 
 * 5 jihadis, 3 civilians, 1 soldier killed
 
 Sep 28
 
 * Terrorists kill SPO and 3 family members in a brutal massacre
 
 * 15 infintrating pigs killed in Gurez sector
 
 * 3 Pigs sent to Houriland from the Valley
 
 * Hizb Terrorist held in Shimla
 
 Sep 29
 
 * Constable killed in an encounter
 
 Sep 30
 
 * 2 SPOs killed in a fidayeen attack. Terrorist also killed.
 
 * Army officer killed in an ambush
 
 * Army eliminates 4 mercenaries
 
 * HUJI pig surrenders with AK-74 rifle
 
 Oct 1
 
 * Army, BSF kill 2 jihadis
 
 * Pigs kill VDC member, civilian
 
 Oct 2
 
 * Terrorists kill 3 civilians
 
 * RR kill 2 pigs
 
 Oct 3
 
 * Paki pig arrested in Jammu with plans of terrorist attack
 
 * 6 pigs, civilian killed in Valley
 
 * 4 jihadis, VDC member and 2 civilians killed
 
 Please read
 http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005516;p=8
 
 THIS IS FROM ARMY WEBPAGE
 http://www.armyinkashmir.org/updates/index.html
 
 READ HOW MANY AE KIILED EVERY DAY. 2000 TERRORRISTS ARE KILLED EVERY YEAR, EARLY 1000 INDIAN ARE KILLED BY TERRORRISTS IN THE PROCESS (SECURITY FORCES AD KASHMIRIS)
 
 U can say all nonsense that the suffering of kashmir doesnt affect u or any other Indian (how insensensitive) because none of ur kin or kith are killed in kashmir and none of ur relatives are in army,fighting the paki pigs and getting killed to save ur ass as well as ur family. Well my family members are fighting. Sitting in India, down to the south u can make any comment, ur life is not being affected, but please please donot make this comment before any kashmiri muslim or hindu and not before any north Indian. certaily not before the kashmiri pandits.

by **Mayavi Morpheus** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:53 am

cotinuing the above post:
 Its is the ordinary pakistani who is trained in a madarassa, indoctrinated, and then sent to india to kill, maim and rape women, kids and soldiers in kashmir. It is the same ordinary paki who also donates money for jihad. u may have seen a good paki, I have seen them too, but they are rare species. If u know urdu, try to get hold of a paki News paper and know for urself what lies they spread about India. And if u cant read urdu, read any English paki paper, dung, pakinews, TFT etc., try to read editorials and u\'ll know what the pakis are being fed by their media, Compare it with Indian media. Show me one anti-paki article in our media.

by **suraj** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 11:14 am

hi,u mayawi y seems to be from any politically motivated or facist party,y u cannot talk any time of peace,my brother is fighting in the Kashmir,I know what is the pain when any of our realative is in danger,but my question is \"what the people of Kashmir want?\",bcos what u want or what I want is different matter.And why should our soldiers die,for the protection of the people who donot want to live with us?.I believe that without the local support this thins can happen,why should we bother for someone who donot want to be with us,leave them on their destiny.

by **Mayavi Morpheus** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:10 pm

Ok suraj, I understand what u re trying to say, but ur choice of words are very incorrect. So is ur solution. Just beacuse some fanatics in Kashmir support insurgency it doesnt mean that all kashmiris support pakis or terrorrists. They are as much Indian as we are and the onus is on us to protect them. We cannot abandon our brethren just because some people think differently. The last thing Kashmiris(muslims/Hindus) want is to join pakistan. yeah, some people want independant state, but they can always be convinced.
 NO DOUBT THERE WAS SUPPORT FOR MILITANCY AT THE BEGNNING, BUT NOT ANYMORE. KASHMIRIS ARE FED UP WITH terrorrism AND MILITANTS ARE SUPPORTED ONLY WHEN THREATENED AT GUN POINT. MUCH LIKE THE NAXALITE CASE IN AP.
 Peace can be achieved by democracy only and the present govt is a people govt and kasmir is limping back to normalcy. u can see the increase in tourism. At the same time u can see the increase in voilence, thats a symbol of desperation of terrorrists, they are being cornered.

by **Mayavi Morpheus** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:17 pm

u know what, people like u re perfect example of pseudo-seculars. Dont have any clue of what u re talking about, dont have the mental capacity to understand what others are saying and still call me fascist! Argue for a unified India without any mention of political party, without any support to any religion and be labelled fascist! Great, do u atleast know the meaning of that word?

by ZC » Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:59 am

U are talking of effect, i am talking of cause. There is no interaction between people of two countries and that builds hatred. As long as u like Bush tries to address the effect, and forget about the root cause u can never get rid of the problem. Cut the root of terrorism by people-people interaction.

by **Mayavi Morpheus** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:00 am

ZC, my question is why should we always extend our hand of friendship only to be bitten? Why do we, Indians, blame ourselves for the enemity with paksitan? Is there such a feeling on the other side? Indian efforts for peace were never reciprocated by paksitan. people to people contacts can only take us that far. Beyond that its the will of paki government to make peace with India. But there is no such thing as paki government. They have a military dictator.
 You need to understand the dynamics of paksitan here, its populace in general and govt in particular.
 Pakistan never had a democratically elected stable government, of its 50 years of existence it was ruled by dictators for more than 25 years. The elected govt was corrupt. No doubt the ordinary paki is just like u and me (well not exactly like u and me, they grow up in tribal areas and almost everyone has a gun) but the govt.\'s survival depends on Kahsmir and hatred towards India. This is aimpediment in the peace process. Thats why you see that most peace processes started by India break off abruptly.
 Pakistan has a huge army which is very corrupt. The army is too huge for a country of size of paksitan. ITs defnce budget is nearly 15 - 20% of its GDP (Indian defe budget is 2.4% of GDP). AS a result of this there is no economic development and the Army is filthy rich (almost all paki officiers are rich and have vast amount of lands in posh areas and their kids are educated in US). Naturally this will lead to unrest in the public which is where kashmir comes into play. Like small kids are distracted by candy, paki populace is distracted by Kashmir issue so that they dont revolt against the govt or dictatorship. They have developed tremendous hate for India. Unlike India where educaed people (67% of pop) think rationally and are not blinded by hate (owing to secular fabric of India and unbiased education) paksitani educated are fiercely against India. The reason being their texts which describe Indians as Dark skinned, wicked Kafirs. Most of the URDU media spreads utter bullshit about Indai, myths, which are not substantiated.
 Given this scenario, there can be no people to people contact or govt. to govt contacts, and any effort to do so should be made by pakistan and not India,unfortunately we Indians being peace loving made several attempts of peace. The current PM has already made three attempts only to be spit on his face.

by ZC » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:38 am

So let it be. We need not talk abt Kashmir just maintain people-people relationships. There are many families divided across the border and they will become pur ambassadors of peace and the people of pak will themselves revolt against the govt, what ever that may be. i was reading arindam banerjee\'s comments in rediff. i liked that. he says, India should concentrated on economy building at UN and other forums rather than wasting time on PAk. i totally agree. Lets stop, say for 10 yrs from now, stop talking abt Pak related problems, no comments and no responces related to kashmir. Just insist on people-people contacts and free trade. i know its a slow process, and we have to remember that we cant boil the ocean onernight !! look at China, it always threatens Taiwan but never attacks. y? coz many Taiwan firms invested in China and vice versa. If that exists between India-Pak, then y will they attack ?

by **Andhraite** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:44 am

but mean while pak will conquer kashmir, which is as \" Heaven On earth \"

by ZC » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:09 pm

i didnt mean that u should remove the gun. Hold the gun point blank and stop talking.

Who is online