Ragging causes topper to flee IIT-Delhi

[Z C]

You want the laws to be implemented and the institutions to be boycotted... Institutes cannot be boycotted, but laws can be implemented. But mostly only good people will be put in jail. I won\'t tell you names and dates, but read this carefully. A student committed suicide and left the room number in the note. Only one senior in that room ragged him and the remaining two in the room didn\'t live in the room protesting that they didn\'t like ragging. They left the room unofficially and stayed in a different room in the same hostel. When the junior committed suicide, all three were arrested \'cos officially they room-mates. The guy who ragged never agreed that only he did the ragging (why? I don\'t know what was going on his head). The result: they finally got permission to study while the trial goes on... One of the two who are innocent recently cracked the entrance exams for PG studies (the UG institute and the PG institute are premier ones). But will this individual ever be able to sleep properly? (The mistake he did was to stay in another room unofficially). Will he ever find a good job? Will he be accepted in society? When the law is implemented, somebody who is innocent is put behind bars. No point arguing and giving fundas, you can never get rid of it. And Ms. Pavani, maybe I am a bit mad to talk like this and am not mature as my friends are, who wouldn\'t ever talk about ragging coz we faced almost everything you mentioned. And finally, even I realize that it is useless to talk about this. Ciao.

[pavani]

ZC, the problem with you is that you like to cut the cloth according to your wish. I mean you want to contradict or project your views by picking up isolated incidents and saying \"Event x is an aberration to what you said above, so what you said must not be followed...\". If this is how you want things to be, then every rule and law in the world must be removed, according to what you have said in your last posting. I hope you know what I mean!

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Problem:
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Ragging in colleges - juniors graduating from freshman years to sophomore years rag the newcomers, the freshmen.
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Reasoning: The most common answer you get for the question \"Why are you ragging?\" is \"Look dude, when I was a fresher I was ragged, so I am having my revenge.\"
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These dumbos don\'t realise that they are doing the same things for which they cursed their seniors. They pass the buck to the juniors. Ragging reached new levels in India in general and AP in particular.
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Remedy:
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In AP, at least the CM took stringet measures to curb ragging. This includes routine patrolling of colleges by the local police - at least in the city colleges this is being done.
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The question is, is it effective? No, not at all. Innocent students are picked up by the police in campuses. If they see a group they start abusing them and quell the group, but little do they realise that the serious offenders don\'t gather in groups in public places in front of the police.
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What is needed is a change in society as a whole. You see so many goons involved in college affairs and so much failure of law and order, that you take things for granted, and students feel that they can get away with anything they do.
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Parents need to talk to their kids about ragging. They should take up the issue with the college faculty and management, and if things don\'t work they should directly meet the parents of the seniors who are harrassing their kids. This has worked before and will work.
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The govt shouldn\'t try to suppress everything with an iron hand - those strategies won\'t work. Instead, new students should be made aware of the perils of ragging and how it\'s propagating, so that at least the next gen is saved. Special mandatory courses can be added to the first year curriculum to bring awareness.
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My 2 cents.

[Anil]

We are mixing here several issues. Let’s first get it straight that we are dealing with ragging of students in educational institutes and not harassment of employers in the offices. Fortunately, the harassment at the offices is not institutionalized as ragging in the colleges is fast becoming into. Moreover, the basic difference is you may not have a choice in the office because your boss is “powerful” and you “depend” on him/her for your livelihood (because he is paying you or your promotion is due, etc., etc.) and you prefer taking everything with a pinch of salt till it reaches intolerable limits. Let’s contrast it with the ragging, your seniors are neither your bosses nor you have any reason to bear them or any of their perverse antics!!!! Give me just one single reason why any junior should face or tolerate ragging from the senior? Equating the seniors in colleges with the bosses in the offices – not a sound analogy! Or is it a veiled approval of the ragging practice? Let me also clarify that none of this is to justify the harassment in the offices. It is as bad as ragging, if not more. But I want to drive home the point let’s not digress the topic. Harassment in the offices – let that be another board.
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<br>Dear “a mom and a dad” I appreciate your sentiments and feelings but truly, how feasible are they? What does the “preparation” involve? Teaching the kids to hit back or abuse back whoever is indulging in it? That looks good on silver screen and is a good source of adrenaline-rush in novels but in real life, not every kid (in fact, majority) is capable of doing that, whatever “training” he/she is subjected to. Could you please elaborate on what is a “positive” way for your kid to react to someone who is forcing him/her to strip and perform unmentionable acts? Why do you think most of the sexual abuse cases go unreported for years together even in the most advanced societies? There are certain issues which, one is not comfortable discussing with anyone (least of all with the parents, however “involved” they are with the kids) and prefer to keep it for themselves and either suffer or get over them with some very deleterious repercussions or resort to extreme measures as suicide. Let me also highlight the fact that no kid runs to its parents or teachers if ragging involves relatively innocuous practices like singing/dancing or some harmless joking. As Kulcha pointed out, kids can handle it. However, I call for a stop to even this “harmless” fun also. If an introvert or very shy kid is forced to sing or dance, that can be very stressful because you are asking something which his persona seldom cooperates to indulge in! OK, what if your kid is the culprit and not the victim? Whatever discipline you inculcate in your kids they are bound to act in totally different way when they are in a group and egged by peers. How else can we explain those incidents where the perpetrators of some of the most horrendous crimes are from the most decent and normal families with very impeccable upbringing and good academic records? A stringent no-nonsense policy, however impractical initially, will prove to be efficacious in the long run. Unfortunately we are living in a society where laws have to be invariably invoked to bring an order. A utopian society is still a distant dream! After all, “lathon ke booth baathon se nahin manthe”.
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<br>All this may be termed as “giving fundas” – but it is lot better than justifying a heinous practice by glorifying it as survival of fittest (I am sure Darwin is restlessly moving in his grave). If harassing your subordinates or making yourselves “sturdy” or thick-skinned to all verbal/physical assault from your superiors or co-workers is survival, then I prefer being dead! Survival of fittest is right in a jungle and for animals! Fortunately, we are considered as evolved (are we really?) and living in a sane society, whether you are “fit” or not everyone has a right to survive. If survival of fittest is the mantra of sustaining, then what about all our physically and mentally challenged brethren – don’t they deserve to be living or should they, shocking as it may sound, be terminated? Think it over!
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<br>May be we are racking our nerves over nothing and none of what we are proposing might be implemented (even though the laws implemented by some of the states point to the contrary). But, that’s still much better, we at least have a positive mindset and barring a few we are not giving up the battle even before it is waged.
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<br>Lastly, ragging is nothing but a sad reflection of a perverse mind set triggered by a certain situation – usually a mob phenomenon. You don’t need PhDs in social sciences to understand this practice! Let’s not expend our researchers’ grey cells in trying to find the root causes (why is it done, who does it, what causes it, is it gene-centric, blah, blah) because neither is it a malady in true sense nor is it something which we cannot control, if determined enough.
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[Z C]

No need to beat our chests, we just can\'t eliminate this - coz as long as humans live, the domination tendency will live. I never said law is not necessary. I hope I am clear now, no need to beat our chests.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Anil, every problem has a solution, and ragging is no exception. As you said, it\'s a mob phenomenon, and I hope you realize how it affects a student\'s life even after he leaves the college. The discipline or lack of it which was inculcated in a student right from the age of 3 to the graduate level goes right into the shit-hole once he enters a college, and the attitude towards fellow humans changes.
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There must be a solution to this. And we have to start somewhere.

[Anil]

It’s amusing and also puzzling that someone who has admitted of “closed eyes” on the practice of ragging (at the same time claiming to get updates from “sources (juniors and staff) in school” – how contradictory!!!) is not only vociferous in the whole discussion but is also taking a pro-stance (although claiming to the contrary) against a practice which deserves nothing but unconditional condemnation! Or is it yet another feeble attempt to be “different” from “us” - the mundane souls with no or poor survival instincts! Being different is fine but having iconoclastic delusions is not healthy. It needs tremendous amount of maturity to balance an argument especially when you are taking a totally diagonal approach and that too an unpopular one. Stooping to personal attacks or “carrying anger from one board to another” (while preaching others not to indulge in it) and giving up even before starting (“u just can’t eliminate”), using offensive language….tch…tch…tch.. Very immature and not at all signs of the “fittest” – very, very poor survival instincts, in fact!

[pavani]

Yes Anil. I support you fully on this. Some people in this board are jealous of your intellectual thinking and excellent English. So they are trying ways to discourage you and annoy you. However, keep it going! I love to read your postings..

[Z C]

Again, funda dena asan hai - check out what your bro/sis/son daughter are doing in college before condemning the practices and calling the institutions bad. And again, my eyes are closed on ragging. Despite the contacts I have and the information I get, I don\'t bother much about this because I know you can\'t eliminate it, and I do not want to call the institutions bad. Simple. And then, I have seen ignorant people put in jail, so with all the bakwaaas justice system, it\'s useless to discuss this. If I were to call names, taking ragging into consideration, on my list, 1) Sainik school 2) NDA schools etc... come on top. Then according to some people\'s suggestions, you have to boycott these schools also.

[Z C]

From The Hindu \"While two students have been expelled from hostel for two years, three others have been expelled for one year, the sources said\". \"Meanwhile, sources said that while the parents of Rajpurohit had taken back the complaints lodged with the authorities, the \"guilty\" students had also given a written apology for the incident\". KUCH NAHI HOGA AND IT WILL CONTINUE. HA HA HA HA. Is expelling from the hostel a punishment? They will buy a bike, eat wonderful food in outside messes instead of junk in hostel, will still spend 24 hrs in the hostel unofficially because there is no total ban on entering the hostel. (And even when there is, it\'s hard to implement, and they can always claim that they have a room outside and are not living in the hostel.) GUYS, TAKE A BREAK AND HAVE A KIT-KAT, KUCH NAHI HOGA. AND NO POINT DISCUSSING. I even doubt if they are the actual people who have ragged - they may most probably be BAKRAS. You will never know.

[pavani]

ZC, what contacts are you talking about? Do you know that ragging has even taken sexual overtones nowadays?

[bornhyderabadi]

I don\'t care which institute it is. It could be the premier institute in the country, but if it is turning a blind eye towards the problem, then they are very much hand in glove with those who are responsible for the acts.
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You can create 10 such instititions for the loss of one. India has such immense talent and knowledge base that we do not have to depend on one, and that too with such a notorious reputation.
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I strongly believe that if instititions take a proper stance against this menance, then this problem can easily be handled. Institutes spend humongous amounts on buildings, lawns, etc. They should allocate proper staff to educate people on this topic, have these staff do rounds of college/hostels and get this staff to have direct contact with law enforcement officals who can step in when needed. I can see this very much achievable.

[Z C]

Another practical example. A does the ragging while his colleagues do not do much, but stay with him. When the complaint is given by the student who is ragged, the staff in the university give A a clean chit because he/she is raieese baap ka beta/beti, but the others are not. It might also be that A belongs to the same caste as the management of the university. Justice system ka koi mathlabh nahi hai bhayya. Didn\'t you face this problem in other aspects of your daily life? You can never bring them to justice. Instead of shouting and making those who are not guilty suffer it is better to keep one's mouth shut. I feel this because i have seen innocent people suffer.

[pavani]

Again you are bringing out isolated cases. See, if A\'s friend did not rag along with A, then he has NO reason to stand there and watch the juniors being ragged. A robber\'s accomplice is also convicted of felony even though he did not do the actual robbery!!!
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If A\'s friend were oh-sooo-good, then they should have stayed away from the scene, or even better, complained to the management.

[Anil]

We ought to get over this mind-set that “kuch nahi hoga”. Nothing’s impossible. Kyon nahi ho saktha? Sab kuch ho saktha. It’s not just the problem of ragging, be it poverty, illiteracy, fundamentalism, pollution, corruption, nepotism, crime, and several other social evils – there is a solution for each one of them. Actually, I don’t see any of these as major problems. The biggest problem is our attitude – negativism and pessimism. If one cannot be proactive, they can at least not be reactive. If one cannot contribute or be part of a good cause, fine. But at least, don’t discourage or criticize or deflate the enthusiasm, ambition, optimism of those who have a positive mind set and are determined for a change, a change for the better – if not in action at least in words! There isn\'t harm in that, is it?

[Andhraite]

Friend, you can\'t understand his philosophy. He talks about both this and that. See his other postings in this board & also in other boards.

[Z C]

Good luck to you guys. I hope and wish at least one of you comes up with something concrete to get rid of it.

[Anil]

\"Four IIT Delhi students expelled for ragging\" - It\'s both good and bad news. Good because the Central Government has finally opened its eyes to this practice. Bad because the expulsion is only for 6 months. I hope apart from the proper criminal proceedings that would be initiated against the culprits it is ensured that they or their families don\'t resort to any evasive or retaliatory tactics. I am also aware nothing might come out of the whole incident. BUT, the freshers at IITs can heave a sigh of relief for some time. How long? That\'s the million-dollar question till this ugly practice re-surfaces at these institutes.

[Ravi]

Everything cannot be categorized in to black and white and so is the case with ragging. I went through ragging and vice versa but in both cases it was with in tolerable levels. I do agree that sometimes ragging becomes a game of power and ego which leads to undesirable consequences.
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Brutal ragging is the sign of a loser. Only people who have low morale and suffer from attention defeciency suyndrome try to prove other wise by ragging. All those who fall into the above category try to dominate the weak due to their inherrent inablities.
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With the changing nature of ragging, I think monitoring and tough laws is the only way to go.

[ZC]

More than two months since this board was started. Did anyone of you do anything concrete to check ragging? Anil and Pavani especially.

[vish]

All of the accused should have been prosecuted, in fact publicly.

[coolnut]

In fact, the collge authorties should be suspended and prosecuted for gross negligence and for making the premier institues of the country \"Brothels for Perverts and Gays\" What are they doing???

[Fiddler]

Dunno why the students themselves can\'t do anything about it. I\'ve been ragged, and I\'ve done a bit of ragging in my time, and I know that it\'s nice to have a little rough-and-tumble with one\'s juniors when they come in. But there are limits that shouldn\'t be crossed. The students themselves of the institute I was in laid down rules as to what was acceptable as ragging and what wasn\'t, and ostracised anyone who crossed the line. Also, there was the chance that a junior who felt he\'d been ragged too badly would take matters into his own hands and beat up the offending senior. This sort of thing made sure that the level of ragging was acceptable to both seniors and juniors. If only more institutes had things like this.

[SOLID ..]

Be solid ..exercise daily & the whole junior batch should Unite.

If any classmate is tried to be ragged beyond a limit .. just get united & kick off your seniors.. there is nothing like junior/senior in front of life & humanity !

Unity is power, Firstly protest verbally & if things r out of control ... just forget that you r juniors ... just RAG your SENIORS ... believe me .. iron cuts iron. .. dont be afraid .. if they r on roads you cant help.

Best Luck ..[/list]