Plane simple food for thought!

[Boilermaker]

Why do we feel the need to get fed on planes? Does cabin decompression increase appetite for C grade food, or is it the sheer excitement of eating from within three inches of someone\'s potentially explosive rear? I was on a half-hour flight from Bombay to Goa a few years ago on business. The feeding frenzy that the passengers went into lasted as long as the plane was in cruising altitude - for about 2 minutes. I remember asking the flight attendant why they decided to feed the passengers lunch on a half-hour flight, and she said that\'s what they expect for all the money they are paying for the tickets. It threw me off. Errr...does anyone know what the total delivery cost is to the consumer? ...more that you\'d want it to be! Further, I do not understand why they can\'t have food optional (for a charge), and knock off a chunk from the fare. I am sure you\'ll see more consumer affordability as a result. Aside from the cost benefits, I am sure many can do without smelling grease at 30,000 ft and having the pleasure of testing the barf bag for leaks.

[Burp]

Yep, they are going to follow your suggestion - \"buy food if you want\" in domestic flights in US. Since we follow everything these white folks do , you can see this in a couple of years in India too.

[Nyx!]

Okay Burp, but y do v have to follow the whites instead of doing our thing... who r gonna tell these folks that its better to learn from our own mistakes instead of being the ones to wag their tails behind...Why can\'t v implement it and bear the consequences, good or bad!

[vivek of themavericks]

Ever heard of southwest airlines, they don\'t do what you just said. Its just go up and come down flight - no frills. Cheap and serves the purpose.

[N]

All international airlines wanted to do it ....\"pay-eat\" system....except Singapore Airlines. Then, people will carry \"GenThikalu/Chakralu/Boondhi etc \"

[Boilermaker]

Yup, I like Southwest. I don\'t know what they do now after 9/11, but prior to that they didn\'t have seat numbers. They had a reusable plastic boarding card that you boarded with, and chose your own seat. I think Jetblue is quite on the same lines. Someone\'s got to come up with a no-frills airline like that for India - that is exactly what we need. Flying these days is not a luxury, but a necessity. Perhaps Richard Branson\'s got some plans for India if not anyone local!

It\'s funny about that comment on us following white people. I do not understand why we shouldn\'t reapply good ideas and reap the benefits. It is not economically possible to innovate in every field, and forcing indigenous development of ideas for everything is highly unproductive, let alone egotistic. Think Ambassador and you will see the light!

[RP]

First of all, anyone who attended a business school in the US would have most definitely heard of Southwest Airline\'s ability to \'control\' its operating costs. I guess even India Profs are teaching business students the same. Second, it is not the cost of food alone. Several things happen before, during and after Southwest \"goes up and comes down\". Those are (a) no food-related cargo loading meaning zero loading/unloading personnel, (b) less time for the aircraft being stationery, (c) smaller chances of additional times, (d) guaranteed time slot to get the runway et cetera, et cetera. And by the way, most food is not \"greasy\" as exaggerated above. People eat more, especially on international flights, because of boredom. Published reports show that couch-potatoes are fat because they are bored, stick to a couch and eat a lot of chips (from potatoes obviously). The point - boredom. Even if an airplane carrier were to not offer food, it will definitely not reduce the prices, as conventional wisdom would make us think. And that is because, the cost is definitely not a \"chunk\". It is probably a very small percentage .. and an airplane considers it peanuts.

[devi]

un..huh. we still have that \'slavery blood\' in us that whenever we see a white skin we begin to get that feeling back ! we (well, most of us I guess and I hope I am wrong !) have to pander to them, we have to feel that much more pride when we are beside a white skin. when a white skin says \'hi\' to you, theres\' a widest smile. all the way to India, a round trip.. but when its a darker skin, nai, an \'Indian\' skin (oh, forgot, even if its black skin its ok. Phoreign, u kno !), nope. There\'s a suggestion of a smile.. a crooked one..that of being irked as to why is this person here !?! \'desi hai !\' HA ! \"anna, car manchiga nadupudu nerchukonni raale?!\" , \"arre, yaar, parsum parsum ayya apna gaon se.. annako abhi car kya cheez hai nahi maaloom\"..
well.. somebody posted a poem on \'vatan\'; choomulu uski zuban jispe aaya teraa naam, sab se rageen subha teri sabh se rageen teri shaam, tujhpe dil khurban, tu hi meri aaruzu tu hi meri abhroo tu hi meri jaan\'
I guess when we begin to feel such love and pride abt our vatan, we shall automatically feel wonderful abt\' ourselves too. all the postive thoughts shall follow.. I promise it. we shall feel the pride of our own innovations just as much as we feel abt\' somebodyelse\'s.

[anewfoundpride]

Whoa! Devi, your posting went on and on, nothing to do with planes and food ??? until I reached tha last paragraph. its a WOW! thought process.

[vivek of themavericks]

Ya all this is familiar as you said to Bschool students. Southwest and 3M have been the most providers for business case studies for MBAs. The point of why India cannot have southwest is the costs involved. The fuel is not subsidised infact it is overpriced to cross subsidise other products. The lisense fee in very high in comparitive terms to US and europe. Hence, a cheapest airline to say Hyd to Delhi would cost you 3700 per seat, usless the company wanna take hit in their finances. Would you pay 3K+ for a pleasure trip!.

[RP]

Going back to the \"greasy\" issue - an opinion I do not subscribe to - of the 3K, what amount would be reduced for food. Probably 20 rupees. That, still, is peanuts.

[vivek of themavericks]

20 bucks might be the cost of the ingredients in yout food, but you see they are prepared by a star hotel , the packed and transported and if required even warmed again then put in each plane to be servered. The service is rendered by the hostess, so her cost also comes in. All put together its about 17% of your airline ticket!.

[RP]

You talk as though you got the 17% number from a legit source. If I may ask, where did you get that from? And you expect the Airline to pay you back your 17% food. And by the way, is the food \'greasy\' because it is prepared by a Star hotel. Yes, my food is only 20 - $20, that is. Not your 20 rupees. It is hard for me to believe Vivek can stoop down to this level of \"20 in your food.\"

[Boilermaker]

Not to digress from the intent of the message, but what\'s the hang up about the food on airlines being \"greasy\". I\'ve traveled on more domestic and international flights than I can count. What I can count is the number of times the food was good (on one hand)- and it definitely was in business class. So, please don\'t tell me the food on airlines is gourmet. Greasy may not be the descriptor for all of them, but it\'s pretty darn close. The food is as good as packaged food gets! Anyways, back to THE topic, I find it hard to believe that airlines can\'t trim costs by taking the food away. Look at the discount airlines like Southwest and JetBlue - they have extremely low prices compared to the rest of the airlines, and one of the main reasons is the lack of food service costs (note, that I say \"food service\" and not \"food\"). Now, the economic impacts may be different for India for numerous reasons, but it definitely would be the first step towards developing more affordable air travel.

[RP]

Got to be more than food and associated services. (1) Who does the airline serve? (Southwest specializes in serving the business traveler), (2) what are its routes, (3) hours of operation, (4) ticket pricing (weekend rates versus weekday fares), (5) on-time schedules et cetera et cetera. We all noticed the addition of \"security tax\" after 9-11 here in the US. While I do not disagree that food services cost, I am arguing for the case that it is not necessarily a major component. I am still wanting to know where that 17% came from.

[vivek of themavericks]

Ya i got the data from an Airline survey conducted. Now the issue was of cost reduction and for short duration flights, you need not have food being served. So 17% there becomes signinificant amount of reduction. Star hotel and all was also true.

[vivek of themavericks]

Note, if we reduce food costs, the air ticket prices goes down. Then more people wanna go fly, then more airplanes, then more runways and bigger aiports!. We are talking of 100s of crores of investments here!.Airline industry is ailing now with accumulated looses running to huge numbers. I dont say its not worth it. But theres got to be a work around. Lets come to that.

[vivek of themavericks]

This may sound a bit far fetched, but if we remove frills from short distance flights in India as an option then the cost reduction if passed 100% to the customer. The ticket price can come down by a huge margin, plus the ATF would come under central sales tax from April 2003 which would further reduce fueling charges. i think this might work.

[Boilermaker]

I wonder if any of the young enterpreneurs are listening. This may be a good investment opportunity to look into. I do not know all if removing all the \"extras\" from airline costs would cut it, but it\'s worth looking into. I think most Indians and the airlines alike still believe flying is a luxury and people need to be treated that way. In a way it is, owing to per capita economics, but someone\'s has to make a move to catch up with the growing business and travellers\'needs. International investments not only look for how good the manpower is (which we often rave about), but also to infrastructure that can support their investments, like road and air connectivity, both of which we lack immensely in.