How much do you hate Pakistan?

by **popesmokesdope** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 8:32 pm

why do we hate the pakis soo much?? The question has always bothered me. so the other day i just asked a small kid on what he thot about pakistan. he replied promptly saying that pakistan sucks. then I asked him why. to which he replied without any hesitation, \"they are bad ppl\"... and he left, leaving me in total awe!!! the 7 yr old kid is changing my life now...! I just realised that in India patriotism in measured on how much you hate the pakis. after having watched PTV and then cribbing about it 24/7 makes u a national hero!! our feeling against the pakis is just outright hate!!! I have no hassles with pakistan or its citizens and i still maintain a great relationship with a couple of paki frnds... very sad what the politicians teach us!!

by **ruhi** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 12:33 am

i agree with u popes! pakis ain\'t dat baad actually! i got loads of paki frnz here n they r just like us! there was a house-warming party at 1 of my paki frnz place the other day n we had a wicked time! they r friendly pple! but... lemme tell ya 1 thing... they wudn\'t loose the chance whn they get tu criticise india! well... pakis r afterall pakis innit! n v don\'t miss out our chances either... politicians r the main cause for all this hatred... but i also think movies play a very important role! if u take gadar... the whole movie was filled up with anti-paki slogans! dats y it was a hit! n after watching dat movie... we all feel proud to be indians! don\'t v?? so politicians n movie maestros r n hand in glove!

by **seetharam** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 5:19 am

We have reached a stage where neither Indians nor Pakis can stop hating each other. These Pakis deserve to live in a hell, and of course, they are living in a hell.

by **Aishwarya** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 11:40 pm

PSD, good to see some sane posts from your side! Well, about junta hating pakis... it is mostly because of the politicians but one cannot rule out the presence of this so called \"UNBIASED\" media also. unfortunately, the media and politicians benefit the most by potraying them as villains... minus all this, pakis can be divided into two simple catagories - bad people and good people - and it is a fifty fifty ratio. I can say for certain that not every pakistani is a bad person, not every pakistani hates India, and not every pakistaani is a fanatic! i personally wouldn\'t mind befriending a pakistani as long as he doesn\'t think ill of our country and use bad words, hate asterix or ...umm is more into ghazals... things like that... probably then i wouldn\'t befriend him!

by **Srinu** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 12:35 pm

hmm i agree hating pakistan is not really being \"patriotic\". i doubt if there are many who feel patriotic just bcos they hate pakistan or bad-mouth pakistanis. but there are scars of yesterday that are still fresh in our minds. now they have the same reason to hate us. and its no secret that they are responsible (even america and european nations now come close to admitting that pakistan has a hand in the terrorist activies here) for a lot of trouble and mayhem in this country. so when something that wasnt initiated by \"them\" happens.. still doubts linger in the mind of common people (as u said.. fueled by the media and politicians) if \"they\" are responsible. and dont forget we fought 3 wars (4 if you count kargil) in just over 1/2 a century. On the flip side, same is the propaganda there.. there have been troubles.. but on the whole.. both hindu & muslims get along decently in this country. but in pakistan they think muslims in india are downtrodden (and incidents like gujarat dont help either.. its their politicians and media who take advantage of these incidents). and finally as for indians and pakistanis being friends.. the solution lies in moving forward, like japan which got bombed by US in world war II has very cordial relationships with its past enemy.

by **peeping tom** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 1:56 pm

in the international arena pakistan is a friend of india only as far as INTERNATIONAL CRICKET IS CONCERNED. because whenever any racism happens in the international arena, both india and pakistan stand together and raise their objections and help each other by statements.
secondly i remember with a soft heart the way in which pakistan sent medicines immediately to the Gujarat earth quake victims.

by **vivek of themavericks** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 11:24 am

This is a sensitive topic but an important one. The problem i guess is the way history has been interpreted by both the sides. A common citizen believes what he gets to read and hear. Hence, both Indian and Pak media is at fault. The media of both the nations have been doctoring facts to project an anti-india or anti-pak picture. We say \"POK\" and PTV says \"IOK\". The map of our POK is smaller than their \"IOK\". This creates a new space for newer paradigms. Since over 70% of indians have access to only the national media the overall thought process has been \"moulded\" as anti-pak. Same story in that side. But look at that international media. The statements are neutral, which paves the way for debate amongst the audience and thus creates a newer prespective for the information. They state as \"the militants were gunned down in what India \"claims\" as Pak occupied kashmir\". If Domestic media had been neutral all through, then each member of the public would have developed an opinion by himself. Say, how many of us know what happened in Shimla agreement? The Karachi pact and the UN resolution (which is very essential to understand the problem) and also why the Agra pact was not signed? Apparently, the Agra pact was drafted and there were some problems with the way the words were used. So much of information was not telecast by any of the Indian channels. The problems with the Agra pact was analysied in CNN and Musharaf spoke his heart out in hardtalk BBC, which was so intense that it was an eye opener as far as developmental crisis in Pakistan goes. He blamed his predecessors for spoiling Pakistan. Today, the crisis is under control as Musharaf has realized that concentrating on economic development of his nation is vital for settling any international standoffs. This was obvious, Indian SENSEX fell by 460 points during the Kargil confrontation, while Pak index dropped by more than 300 points. India can withstand a fall like that, but Pak would be ruined and that too with extent of external debt burden. The point is, hating pakistan is not the issue, the fine quality powder sugar which coffee bars use is from Pakistan! Lets not hate Pakistan, try to be critical because even they have begun to be pragmatic. They were just 6 months from becoming an economy like Afganistan. The Indo-pak issue is a complicated one, and purely political. There are not much of economic and other trade related ramifications. It\s important to be good to your neighbours. Try to be critical. Try to grab a one of March \"The-Hindu\" Open page suppliment, a two page historical Musharaff interview was published.

by **lucifer-in-disguise** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:43 pm

hmmm....how can we indians be so tolerant any more, when our neighbour is always trying to destroy India, politically, economically, socially......think \'bt this, Iran is in a position to supply huge amt of gas n oil to India, thanks to Pakistan this could never be realised as the pipe line shd come via that country for feasibility......B********s, they will never develop n will always try for Indian down fall.....

by **vijay** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 4:44 pm

Pretty Much surprised with so many Goody Goody
Guys on the Board .Believe it or not it is
this sort Goody Attitude of our yester years
Leaders ala politicians(like nehru...) that
we still face the Menace called Pakisthan so
tolerantly .Come on guys wake up Love thy neighbour
is good in books if neighbour does not understand
the meaning of Love we better get a bit tough
and mind on face of it no one friend of yours
can be bad with you(even if they are pakis....)
But when it comes to nation they all turn exactly opp.
and they are justified too...it might be called
Pseudo -patriotism if so exhibit that too

Remember why we donot play all that tough cricket
with pakis... and lost many times with them
exactly this Goody Goody nature
Buck up Indians Leave your \"Good samaritan\" image

by **Aishwarya** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:09 pm

hey vijay..does that mean that you hate every pakistaani?even we have been bad to them sometimes with no reason at all..does that mean that you and i are bad... we are talking about the civilians here pal not the poiliticians..if that were the case even our politicians are equally culpable.. and if you really want this issue to end then start with our politicians, they are the ones who are screwing up things between the two nations!

by **popesmokesdope** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:26 pm

AMEN BRADA!!! I totally second that... I am really glad that there are actually ppl who understand the sensitivity of the topic.

by **popesmokesdope** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:37 pm

hey gafboy, I think you are kinda lost. you have already been added to my list of wannabe-paki hater. if u really feel so much for pakistan then why dont ya try to reason out..buddy? not every one here is all sugar-coated and goody goody, and lemme introduce to you a word called humanity...

by **popesmokesdope** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:43 pm

jingo man, regards !! I guess \'apna bharat\' shud be more worried about guys like you then pakistan! and besides thats all you can do buddy just crib in anonymity .. wake upp and try get a grip on reality.

by **vijay** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:52 pm

Hey Ash(if u donot mind me calling sooo)and Pope let me make one thing clear no one hates an ordinary
citizen in Pak all iam trying to say is donot get
too silly with ur Humanitarian Stuff u saw Movie
Border Climax was a Joke!!!!
I donot want Haters of Humanity I want
tough people Who stand Tough with pakis...
Nothing not even a inch when it comes to
Pakis will be given......
And Yours Truly is a great proponent of socialism
etc.., so please donot try to intrepret it wrongly at
the same time donot live in a Fools Paradise of
good ppl
This world demands Tough Leaders Let us not try to
lag behind in that matter no matter corrupt but
\"TOUGH LEADERS\"

by **popesmokesdope** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 8:53 pm

apart from movies and politicians the army guys are also kind of responsible for introducing that kind of psuedo-patriotism ...this i can say as I speak from first hand experience.I mean the hatred among them is sort of justified, but generalising it to the whole of pakistan and even the innocent ppl there who have no role whatsoever ( and believe me these guys form a majority) in cross border terrorism are targeted. jst take the name of pakistan, and lo .. you will have the most colorful and choiciest of \'gaalis\' presented in the most articluated form.

by **just_one_in_crowd** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:22 am

Pope, whats ur problem if someone hates Pakis. They are not stopping ur weed from Pak. We all know ur Pak lov is for the dope.

by **vivek of themavericks** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 2:03 am

We are looking at a generation old problem,but the approcah should get rid of generation of paradims and get to the fact that tpday we have newer and more realistic leaders and information source.Also the mounting internation pressure is giving the crisis and whole new dimension.Hence , move taken would certainly have international ramifications in terms of membership in various bodies and counsels , trade related measures , internal borrowings , tourism , forex , and many more.Balancing so many aspects is a serious matter and it just won`t happen unless our neighbour remains practical.And , they infact are and they were not during nawaz shareef or benazeer\\\'s regime.Musharaff has done a lot infact.Call a spade a spade .

by **Nivea** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:35 am

Its a pretty sensitive issue,and the fact that it still remains sensitive after 50 yrs of our independence is a real shame. We all must realise that we do originate from the same tree and just that the fruits haven fallen astray.no one is good or bad, just time which projects it, as such, and nothing is a total absolute,all things are relative in life, and so is this one.Its a shame that about 90-95% of this population in both countries,pride in being a patriot by showing their hatred towards each other.But i am not a leador nor am i a politician and neither do i intend to be one. I like many others rely on our govt. to do the necessary thing. I wonder if that will ever happen.?

by **desi** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 4:17 am

the issue started on basis of religion...has taken so many new dimensions, and is currently a huge complex issue with no single answer. If we wish to have a settlement to the problem and hope to stay in peace in the future, we have reduce the hatred that many of us have developed (or shud i say inherited). A temporary solution with open wounds will make the issue to recur. So some understanding that the people on the other side are only human, have similar hatred that is largely forced by the media and the politicians will help us face the reality more easily. Each persons hatred is understandable...but is it justifiable, will it help us go any where near the solution. Current loss of life estimates as a result of war between the two nations are put at 9 to 22 million, not considering the after effects. What feelings, or reasons can justify that number? Like i said, there is no single answer...a solution has to work on different scales. As vivek put it \"call a spade a spade\"...we have to even recognize the anger as real which if not taken care of, will result in serious consequences. This is one more dimension where there are things to be done, and we need not depend on the government or the media for any help or action.

by **laskar_sikandrabadi** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:46 am

Hatred, can it be measured or quantified?
Per se, Pakistan or Pakistani should not be the subject matter of hatred. It is the post Independence anachronism of convoluted pacts/agreements, which went astray and miffed feelings from the partition that resulted in present day sour feelings between the two countries. Adding to that is the incorrigible attitude of Pakistani military regime/s to pilfer anything that they cud from India and trying to exonerate itself from the world opinion under the pretext of religious jihadi movement is one of the causes for the trite hatred. It is the ensemble of these nagging issues that ensued in the groomed or articulated hate. Once these pesky irritants are alleviated by either a long reach strong arm action or by overbearing tolerance (if at all possible), the hate also may find its demise.

by **vivek of themavericks** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:01 pm

Yes,i do agree with some of you.The problem is a purely political. But ,what made this escalate to become the most dangerous place in the world as Clinton defined it?.The answer is simple , the whole senario today is a cocktale of political complications , religious fundamentalism , mis interpreted holy Quran , povery in that region and thus forced recruitment of new and young \"fundamentalists.The real issue today is infiltration rather than border conflict.Shimla agreement was declated towards the motive of having an international line of control.Agra pact was to review and evolve a status-qou on the same lines. The twist here is that the ISI \"sponsored \" trained infiltrators are creating havoc everywhere,for which Mushraff claims no accountability. He has clealy stated in media that \" I have no play in what the freedom fighters are doing,they don`t ask me before they do, because i am not mad to permit them to carry on\". Maintaining this stand point,Musharaff is now calling for international concensus to help drive terorism out of the area of conflict(which no Pak leader in the history of the nation did).India on the other hand does not want to support Pakistan to help build consensus unless they stop the inflitration.Now this is a real \" Catch 22\" for Pakistan.How?, well for gathering international opinion India\'s participation would do wonders as we are one of the fastest growing and emerging economies of the world.The western world values India for the skill and strategic position we have aquired in many aspects, so to promote further FDIs and FIIs India\'s cooperation is the least that is required. In short Pak cannot do without India!,but India asks for de-escalation and stoppage of Infiltration.This is the only problem, but a very complicated one as the hardlines in this issue are people from all walks of life ,particularly the religious leaders.Think about it!

by **vivek of themavericks** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:05 pm

Dude theres more dope in India ( Kerla and Ahmedabad) then Pak has!

by **indian** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:02 pm

I really can\'t understand this fan of musharaff..looks like our friend remembers well abt all the agreements n pacts but forgot who was the main force behind kargil war..who keeps on telling that pakistan wont stop supporting so called jihadis..\"india is not cooperating\" !!!!!!!!!!!!!..wake up friend...please enlighten us wat kind of cooperation shud be given so that infiltration stops..so that dawood dies..osama disappears frm ur pakistan...cooperation requires two parties not just one...u may believe him if he says that he doesn\'t have ne control over terrorists or ISI but as the head of pakistan if he can\'t contrl then v dont need to argue abt this...i totally agree with vijay...v have to be tough.. however it does not mean that v have to hate every pakistani...v r not blind to ignore the advantages of having good relations with neighbours..but again it has to b two ways..

by **vivek of themavericks** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 4:16 pm

Thanks Indian, let me try to clear your quiries .By the way i am very much an indian at heart.My intention was to give the discussion a legitimate outlook,that i notice many here are not providing.Talking about good neighbour policy and cooperation sound nice for people living in apartments,not two countries.There are some legal protocols set that needs to be followed.Musharaff may not mean what he says,but that goes on record and that is what is taken to take international level decisions. We all know,Pak is behind militancy,then why no strong action has not been taken?.Because,the official stance is , Musharaff has nothing to do with it.Even UN Secy Gen takes this word for takind decisions and evolving consensus and thats what makes this Indo-pak issue so complicated!!.There is nothing you and me can do about it and even if we could , we all know whats going on in the Balkans!

by **Shahed** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 4:31 pm

I gave up..these kina discussions will never end..100 mouths 200 opinions..sumthin is cumin in my mind wich is simple and easy to understand. not talking about india and pakistaan but talking about my neighbour/s. I have a very soft corner n sympathy , loving approach towards my neighbour bcoz he is weaker to me in every aspect, but when he improoves and able to compete me in the market or sometimes going upper than me then my attitudes gets changed towards him and here the never ending problems begins. Competetion , development and achievements plays an important role. Hate is there in human nature from the begining forget about the hate between two nations, you will find the hate between different religions in one country, hate between different casts in one religion, hate between different colours in one community, hate between two neighbours in one society and last but not the least hate between TWO BROTHERS OF ONE MOTHER,ONE HOME,ONE SOCIETY,ONE RELIGION,ONE COUNTRY.....Few decades before India was a close friend(disciple) of Russia and more or less against America and now the scenario is totally changed..Lets consider this thing \\\'O Dear America Please Come And Use My Land To Attack On Afghanistaan who is not my Enemy..Though You Have Not Asked For It Yet I Am Ready To Give You My........\\\'. Acceptance before Request. Where we are and what we are...

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