Israel-Hezbollah War

[Mayavi Morpheus]

and whats the reason behind asking Muslims leaders to condemn everything, up to a point where it becomes customary.

Because the perpetrators are muslims in almost every terrorrist incident in this country whether you choose to believe it or not. Just read the recent reports and every muslim leader is defending the terrorists especially the shahi idiot imam bekhari. This is a tacit support for terrorrism. Its is proven beyond doubt (you will never be shown the proof in your lifetime) that Indian muslims are actively involved in terrorrist activites, so the muslim community has the onus to reign in those terrorrists, if not the whole community will be viewed with suspicion.

We dont know if there is any bad guy , its not as obvious as a Hindu nieghbour killing his Muslim neighbours with the complicity of state police as was very evident in Gujarat, then you know that the bad guy is the bad guy.

hehehe... when hindus are involved, its obvious but when muslims are involved nothing is obvious even if its right in front of your eyes.

Here we have a blast which no one knows who is behind Let or Shiv Sena or VHP or RSS , the police obviously picks up some Muslim youth

hahahaa... you want proof, dont you? You want the intelligence agencies report to you everyday, right?
The police have only one agenda, to harass muslims who are always innocent because muslims are born peaceful and can never be a criminal.

You talk about the society , what did vast majority of the Hindu society do to Modi in Gujarat , they elected him back to power and gave him more time to carry out the carnage and genocide of Muslims in Gujarat

Yes, because no proof was shown that Modi carried out the riots. It works both ways my friend.

This is a very contradictory statement, we have secular NGOs of which muslims are members , are you(Hindu Fundamentalists) taking the credit for secular NGOs as well , when secularism itself is the punching bag of all the criminal minded Hindu Fundamnetalists all over India.

Secular doesn't mean no religion. It means tolerance for other religions. Go get a list of NGO's fighting Gujarat cases and see how many hindus are working for them. Then show me an all muslim group which has a secular agenda.

Show me a exclusively Hindu organization which protested the genocide of Muslims in Gujarat , which opposed Modi's appearances at different places to foment violence, name one exclusive Hindu organization.

There are no *exclusive* hindu organizations except RSS, VHP and the likes. I guess no one showed them proof that they are the ones involved .

At the end of the day its the hatred for others that makes people see what they want to and willfully ignore the facts just because they hate a section of society.

Like you want to ignore the fact that with Sikh seperatism gone, the only religious terrorrism left in India is Islamic terrorrism

[I Hate You Guys]

More than 50% of terrorist organisations in the world, belong to this religion(Islam).



So why shouldn't anyone go against them ?



Ok..... I am not against every muslim......... but am against most of them.



If you guys support the Hezbollah............ then i am sure you will support Al-Qaeda as well. They have the same motives.



Why was almost all the Islamic population rejoicing at the time of 9/11 ?



Why were those terrorist bastards being called martyrs ?



Why where the muslims in India so happy about 9/11 ? (i guess you were too)



And why don't you agree to the fact that Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation ?





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Supreme Leader Intelligence Head Quarters - Extremely Confidential



To: Head of the Operative Unit 43



Re: Direct Orders from the Supreme Leader



Hojat ol Islam Mr. Pour-Ghanad:



With regards & prayers,



The success and achievements of your dedicated and brave team is our wish. Your report on different strategies in support of future Al-Qaida plans has been reviewed from a variety of different perspectives. In clarifying any doubts, his Excellency Supreme Leader has insisted on reminding us all that, combating with the International Imperialism, at the head of which, America & Israel are the main two enemies of Islamic order, is the main goal of our Islamic Directive. Disruption and destruction of their economic and political systems, discrediting, and endangering all of their other structural organizations and balance of security of these two united enemies of Islamic regime are crucial and an obligatory task to be achieved. His Excellency has asked for more attentiveness on these activities, with emphasis on your outmost awareness and alertness. With due consideration of the downfalls and consequences of this cooperation, persist in organized groups, and in closer collaboration with other intelligence and security operatives and outside supporters, to limit our enemies increasing array of activities. Reflecting all your achievements under the direct supervision of the head of the department of Hefazat, - - (Special Intelligence Operatives within organizations) - - detection of any failure will be naturally the task of this dedicated office. Also it has been assigned for our future conferences to further rectify and discuss the elimination of major obstacles, additional implementation of improvements with regards to achieving a higher level of cooperation between Al-Qaida fighters and Hezbollah fighters towards a specific ideal goal. At the end, his Excellency Supreme Leader with satisfaction and complete support for the achievement of your future plans and understanding the importance of your duties, his Excellency Supreme Leader has also insisted - - you must make sure, that no trace of any support for Al-Qaida, which could have negative and irreversible consequences should ever exist and be limited to the current relationship with Moghnie and Al Zarghavi. - -





God be with you,



Ali Akbar Nategh Nouri





Head of Supreme Leader Intelligence Office



Extremely Confidential





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me know if you need the link for the above letter. I don't lie and I don't cook up stories. And i don't have time to write such a pathetic letter.





Screw You Terrorist Bastards And Their Supporters

[Sachin]

Lets look at this problem from another context, I agree Israel's birth did not come in the best possible circumstances but now do you want to fight over it till you die?
Well Hezbollah is a terrorist group and anyone who supports them are illogical to the core. These guys have been fighting it out over decades and innocent people have been the victims.
Now you people are crying foul over the death of lebanese where did your tears go when Israeli Olmpic team's 9 people were brutally killed in 1972? Were they not innocent? They were attacked and killed brutally when they were supposed to play for there country the following week?
Israel hit back with MOSSAD and I support them. Lebanon, Syria and Iran are trying to overpower it and Israel has every right in defending herself.
And TFB is bringing religion into this discussion which is not apt.

LOL...sachin that is one obsolete retort, if ever there was one. Most of us were probably not conceived back then.

lol akshay u dont kill just for the heck of it? can you imagine what will happen if someone kills our hockey or cricket team? try to understand the gravity of the incident, sad that u dont seem to get it.

[indiabo]

Killing is not gonna solve any problem. The terrorist problem is more like an abstract mental pandemic. The only way is to cleanse the hard feelings and polluted minds.

But that doesnt mean we sit tight and get killed until the minds of terrorists and their sympathisers are cleansed. We got to hold our position, even if it be violently, untill the pandemic is cured by appropriate means. As the israelis say, [size=18]before human rights come survival rights.[/size]

I agree the israeli demographics are glaringly incongruent in arab context. But then so are the caucasians in Americas, caucasians in Africa, Arabs from libya to sudan and so on. Israel is not the first case of demographic turbulence. What has to be accepted is that Israel is irreversible. Using creation of Israel as the reason for coninual arab initiated violence is obsolete at the best and fatal at the worst.

Akshay you really had the good and a intelligent point man of the survival right. thats y i highlighted for to be read by other viewer.



But are u justifying israels exceptionally rude and big brother attitude towards its neighbours. then wat are the appropiate means. surely that should have been explored long back not in this century. Is israel is atleast have accept some responsibility for its inability to do so.



those appropiate means



yeah israel is irreversible.



but isnt it a mistake. and the birth through mistakes is taunted.



But please arabs all not always the initiator even in this case the israelis were found patrolling on the wrong side of the clearly disrespecting the motherland of hezbollah.

[akshay]

arre bhai...it is just funny that you are asking people to shed tears today for the killings of 1972. There are numerous more worthy contemporary reasons to shed tears.

[so do i]

doesnt mean to hurt any one and any community its personal to only and only the above post.



you can write such post with uneducated behaviour u displayed. the desperado image is nothing more like the one og sword weilding nationalists.





i dont support any views sdown below but would like to him know that thee are alway replies.

More than 50% of hindu population in gujraat particioated in the pogrom of 2002, belong to this religion(hindu).

So why shouldn't anyone go against them ?

Ok..... I am not against every hindu........ but am against most of them.

If you guys support the vishwa hindu parishad ............ then i am sure you will support Al-Qaeda as well. They have the same motives. fanatics for a natinalistic hindu rashtra (bangladesh to afghanistan) like shariah rule

Why was almost all the hindu population rejoicing at the time of 06/12/92?

Why were those terrorist bastards like dara singh( graham staines murder case) being called leaders of their party (bajrang dal) ?

Why where the hindus through out the world so happy about babri demolition the disputed structure not a mosque ? (i guess you were too)

And why don't you agree to the fact that vhp is a terrorist organisation ?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.hinduonnet.com/2003/07/30/st ... 691201.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me know if you need the link for the above letter. I don't lie and I don't cook up stories. And i don't have time to write such a pathetic letter.


Screw You Terrorist Bastards And Their Supporters

[Akshay]

Killing is not gonna solve any problem. The terrorist problem is more like an abstract mental pandemic. The only way is to cleanse the hard feelings and polluted minds.

But that doesnt mean we sit tight and get killed until the minds of terrorists and their sympathisers are cleansed. We got to hold our position, even if it be violently, untill the pandemic is cured by appropriate means. As the israelis say, [size=18]before human rights come survival rights.[/size]

I agree the israeli demographics are glaringly incongruent in arab context. But then so are the caucasians in Americas, caucasians in Africa, Arabs from libya to sudan and so on. Israel is not the first case of demographic turbulence. What has to be accepted is that Israel is irreversible. Using creation of Israel as the reason for coninual arab initiated violence is obsolete at the best and fatal at the worst.

Akshay you really had the good and a intelligent point man of the survival right. thats y i highlighted for to be read by other viewer.

But are u justifying israels exceptionally rude and big brother attitude towards its neighbours. then wat are the appropiate means. surely that should have been explored long back not in this century. Is israel is atleast have accept some responsibility for its inability to do so.

those appropiate means

yeah israel is irreversible.

but isnt it a mistake. and the birth through mistakes is taunted.

But please arabs all not always the initiator even in this case the israelis were found patrolling on the wrong side of the clearly disrespecting the motherland of hezbollah.

Thank you for bringing priority of rights to fore. The priority is same for both Israelis and Arabs. We all should be able to agree on that.



I see no big brother here, infact Israel provides an opportunity for those arabs who want to move ahead into the new world, alas there are few takers. Israel shows a live example of thriving democracy and successfull economic model among the theocratic dysfunctional arab societies. How arabs make use of this example is upto them. Their history is not very encouraging in this regard.



The appropriate means for peace are yet to be found, unfortunately the terrorists and their sympathisers are not willing to wait untill they are found. So it is then incumbent on the israelis to defend themselves while searching for the solution to peace. Otherwise they become the punching bag for the sipah-e-suicide, just as our own country has become now.



I think Israel accepts its own mistakes too in this regard, otherwise they wouldnt have left lebanon and other places.





I justify the Israeli action. My justification is based on the understanding that it was the Hezbollah that initiated this episode of Lebanon (lets separate the palestine kidnap for the moment). My understanding is based on what I consider unbiased media and on the historic pattern of Islamic Terrorism nuisance in the world.



Why do I justify the severity of the force? This is coz Israel must show the absolute intolerance towards lebanese sympathy for hezbollah. The lebanese were required to remove the militias along the Israeli border and use regular lebanese patrols. Lebanese didnt do that all along these years. If Israel doesnt do what it is doing right now it will face the same hezbullah nonsense again. We know from our own experience with Pak how successfull patience is with these lunatics.



Historically Israel has never been the instigator, but it deals severly whenevr provoked. This severity is then used by the terrorist idiots to foment more hatred amog the arab masses. The resulting arab hysteria is what funds these terrorists. So these terrorists can survive only by provoking Israel.



If "Taunting" was a valid reason for suicide bombers then a hindu should have suicide-blasted the bitchkhari of Jama mazjid for saying muslims ruled india for 800 years and they will rule again.





Wether israelis went into lebanon or hezbs went into israel is open for debate. Tthe fact is hezb has two israeli soldiers.



Anyway WTF is a militia doing on an international border. This is the main contention. No country should be pardoned for allowing militias to run camps, store ammunition and control borders. Such countries should be duly justly treated as terrorists.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Why where the muslims in India so happy about 9/11 ? (i guess you were too)

This is a baseless allegation.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

But please arabs all not always the initiator even in this case the israelis were found patrolling on the wrong side of the clearly disrespecting the motherland of hezbollah.

Its sad that many muslims cannot see beyond the obvious Israel-palestine conflict. Arabs are using the conflicts to acheive their own goals (Trivia: How many palestine refugees have found shelter in Saudi?) and the americans are using it to secure their energy future.

[Sachin]

arre bhai...it is just funny that you are asking people to shed tears today for the killings of 1972. There are numerous more worthy contemporary reasons to shed tears.

well I am a big fan of Avner and his team who killed 7 of the 11 terrorists involved in the munich 1972 killings hence the example.

MOSSAD is the best intelligence agency, I guess I am deviating from the topic.

carry on guyz your views make an interesting readin but dont get too personal good luck!!!!

and and and dont make wikipedia your official source haha

[tfb]

I justify the Israeli action. My justification is based on the understanding that it was the Hezbollah that initiated this episode of Lebanon (lets separate the palestine kidnap for the moment). My understanding is based on what I consider unbiased media and on the historic pattern of Islamic Terrorism nuisance in the world.

Your usnderstanding has been proven wrong looks at my other posts in this thread where I have quoted Forbes.com and Chinese newspaper Asian Times who reported that the Israeli soldiers were captured in the Lebanese side of the border.

Why do I justify the severity of the force? This is coz Israel must show the absolute intolerance towards lebanese sympathy for hezbollah.

This is pretty disgusting. It implies (judging by your summary) that it's o.k. to kill people for having the wrong thoughts (they sympathize with Hezbollah), or pre-emptively (they might take up arms with Hezbollah at some point in the future).If we extend that logic it justifies many other things.



Kill them all becuase they can fire you rockets at you in defence which are little more than the fire crackers at the very best.



Now look at the following pcitures and tell me if you support this too, let us kno where the Hindu fundamntalists stand as well and how far they can go in their hatred towards Muslims worldwide.You sound nothing but a hatefilled callous Hindu zealot to say the least.



Oh, no doubt all of those children were complict with the actions of Hezbollah!!Therefore I a Hindu fundamentalist support the wholesale slaughter of Lebanese children because they are Muslims stupid, and I after supporting these murders have the moral right to condemn them too..

[Akshay]

I justify the Israeli action. My justification is based on the understanding that it was the Hezbollah that initiated this episode of Lebanon (lets separate the palestine kidnap for the moment). My understanding is based on what I consider unbiased media and on the historic pattern of Islamic Terrorism nuisance in the world.

Your usnderstanding has been proven wrong looks at my other posts in this thread where I have quoted Forbes.com and Chinese newspaper Asian Times who reported that the Israeli soldiers were captured in the Lebanese side of the border.

As I mentioned at the end of my previous post, the cause of the current conflict is debatable. What is not debatable is Hezb as of now being in posession of two israeli soldiers, and holding the key to conflict resolution through the release of the kidnapped soldiers.

Why do I justify the severity of the force? This is coz Israel must show the absolute intolerance towards lebanese sympathy for hezbollah.

This is pretty disgusting. It implies (judging by your summary) that it's o.k. to kill people for having the wrong thoughts (they sympathize with Hezbollah), or pre-emptively (they might take up arms with Hezbollah at some point in the future).If we extend that logic it justifies many other things.

Well....my statement justifies only one thing: dealing severely with the pandemic of terrorism. If you wanna extrapolate my stand to something irrelevantly morbid then indulge yourself.

Further...Israel has consistently said that the attacks will stop once the hezbs deliver the soldiers back to israel. If Hezb cares so much about the dead and dying lebanese then why dont they deliver the soldiers.

As I said before if Israel relents it will be a chakka nation. Do you realise which country has suffered the most terrorist attacks in the world? It is our own. Pacifism has its time and place. It has not worked with lunatic terrorists and their sympathising nations.

Kill them all becuase they can fire you rockets at you in defence which are little more than the fire crackers at the very best.

It is not Israelis' fault that they spent time building bunkers for safety from terrorists rather than training suicide bombers. If not for the bunkers and preparedness of the israelis we would have learnt how many casualities a daily barrage of 300 katyushas can deliver.

Now look at the following pcitures and tell me if you support this too,

Dont give me the picture bullshit...that has been tried by crapp and dq many times before. They are nothing more than nauseating. Do you want the rest of us to start linking pictures of people maimed by terrorist attacks? After that we both can tea discussing which victim was maimed worse.

let us kno where the Hindu fundamntalists stand as well and how far they can go in their hatred towards Muslims worldwide.You sound nothing but a hatefilled callous Hindu zealot to say the least.

You are welcome to form your opinion about me...I have never called you a muslim bigot, thats coz I see you are very reasonable and persuasive in your presentation. But I realise you are loosing that respectability fast.

I consider myself secular. I want everyone to live in peace. If this peace requires that terrorist weeds be eliminated and their sympathisers be shown rationality in whatever appropriate means then so be it.

Oh, no doubt all of those children were complict with the actions of Hezbollah!!There fore I a Hindu fundamentalist support the wholesale slaughter of Lebanese children because they are Muslims stupid..

I will not waste your time teaching the value of not extrapolating to ridiculous conclusions.

http://waheed.khybergrace.com/waheed/4w.jpg

http://waheed.khybergrace.com/waheed/childh.jpg

http://waheed.khybergrace.com/waheed/collage.jpg

Nauseating.

[indiabo]

But please arabs all not always the initiator even in this case the israelis were found patrolling on the wrong side of the clearly disrespecting the motherland of hezbollah.

Its sad that many muslims cannot see beyond the obvious Israel-palestine conflict. Arabs are using the conflicts to acheive their own goals (Trivia: How many palestine refugees have found shelter in Saudi?) and the americans are using it to secure their energy future.

No not at all. Morpheus look at the level of discussion accept couple of personal post u'll find that these are of good quality and every one here have the basics well done.



There are many broder issues which have popped

+ autocratic arab regimes
+hezbollah militia on international borders
+democracy in arab world
+palestinian refugees in saudi

but immediate focus is the current war. do u support the brutal hard and fast method of israelites or respect the the lebanese govt not hezbollah

[tfb]

If what you support what is causing nauseating stuff, then your support for that kind of actions only shows that you have to have corkscrew thinking to support that.Earlier one of the debaters(you know who I mean ) here said that silence is tantamount to abetting a crime where do you stand when it comes to supporting (and not keeping silent)about the killings of Lebanese childre and civilians.



You try to avoid confronting the result of the actions you so vehemently and callously support as being too nauseating for you , for teh sake of objectivity imagine yourself as being a lebanse victim of these actions how you would feel when someone tells you that he or she supports your complete anhiiation ,murder of your childre etc etc..So much for being objective, isnt it?



You still havent convinced anyone here that your support of lebanse loss of life is not becuase of Anti Muslim hatred , which possibly has its roots in your background, which I doubt becuase of the communal comments you made reacting to my initial posting s in this forum.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

No not at all. Morpheus look at the level of discussion accept couple of personal post u'll find that these are of good quality and every one here have the basics well done.

I am sorry, I did not find a single informative post here, not in this thread not in the dozen or so threads about middle east issues. None of the postors here have the maturity or knowledge of the issues to make intelligent and objective posts.

but immediate focus is the current war. do u support the brutal hard and fast method of israelites or respect the the lebanese govt not hezbollah

I neither support nor oppose Israel. I feel bad for the lebanese as much as I feel bad for the Israelis.

[Bimbette]

Completely unrelated to the topic.



All the opinions here helped me understand better what is happening in Israel/Lebanon.



Thanks.

[Akshay]

If what you support what is causing nauseating stuff, then your support for that kind of actions only shows that you have to have corkscrew thinking to support that.Earlier one of the debaters(you know who I mean ) here said that silence is tantamount to abetting a crime where do you stand when it comes to supporting (and not keeping silent)about the killings of Lebanese childre and civilians.

You try to avoid confronting the result of the actions you so vehemently and callously support as being too nauseating for you , for teh sake of objectivity imagine yourself as being a lebanse victim of these actions how you would feel when someone tells you that he or she supports your complete anhiiation ,murder of your childre etc etc..So much for being objective, isnt it?

You still havent convinced anyone here that your support of lebanse loss of life is not becuase of Anti Muslim hatred , which possibly has its roots in your background, which I doubt becuase of the communal comments you made reacting to my initial posting s in this forum.

OK I will elaborate for your sake:

1) The pictures themselves are nauseating to me as they would be to any normal human, as per my understanding again.

2) Even more nauseating to me is the use of those pictures for spreading propaganda, seeking sympathy, and buttressing points of views.



Do I support killing children? Oofcourse not. Do I support killing adults? ofcourse not. Do I support killing innocents? ofcourse not. Do I support killing guilty? Ofcourse not. Do I support death penalty? Ofcourse not. Do I support killing lunatic terrorists bent on killing you? You bet I do.





Let me present two cases:

1) I am happily going by tran in mumbai to meet my beautiful lady and I have all these nice feelings in my head...then suddenly BOOOM.

2) I funded and allowed hezb to prevail on the borders. I have significant hezb representation in my parliament. I have benefited through hezbs madrasas, hospitals, soup kitchens, and what not. As I supported and enjoyed the patronage of hezb I should expect to suffer with the hezb. No free lunch anywhere.



Dont tell me these two are disconnected. Both the events are the results of the lunatic finge brigade of violent minority muslims seeking worldwide calliphate and destruction of kaffirs. Dont take my word for it; read the literature of Markazs, qaidas, lashkars, jaishs, hezbs, hamases and all their sister orgs. Denial of this problem's existence is not gonna help much.



And what communal comments might those be? Please quote, do not blurt, I might apologize or present my reasons.

[Arch]

No not at all. Morpheus look at the level of discussion accept couple of personal post u'll find that these are of good quality and every one here have the basics well done.

I am sorry, I did not find a single informative post here, not in this thread not in the dozen or so threads about middle east issues. None of the postors here have the maturity or knowledge of the issues to make intelligent and objective posts.

yup, I second w/ you here MM about us not having enuf knowledge about this particular issue. if we stop personalizing we shud b able to get something more from each other... where's HP now that we need his input. and whoelse.. from the list of present members??

[indiabo]

By any interpretation of international law or on moral principles ,



Israel today is committing massive and egregious war crimes and crimes against humanity against the defenseless people of Palestine and Lebanon.



Defenseless?



Yes they defenseless. by all democratic means hamas is appointed as a party to govern themselves. now wats wrong in that its the people who want these extreme views to be governing principle.



Even after such a heinious crime of pogrom modi was elected as a cm. its the people and they support him, his views. So you mean whole of the guj population to be convicted.



wat you are acting as a cheerleaders for the mass killing, crippling destruction, and immiseration of innocent civilians in Lebanon and the forcibly Occupied palestinian territories. and hell bent towards israel !



now abt those three soldierswhich were were captured, not "kidnapped"



you have it that israel should kill all those who even support the the capturer



can u please

let me know wat abt those nearly 10,000 Palestinian and Lebanese civilians who were forcibly abducted, are now held in indefinite detention! with no signs of lprosecutions in Israeli prisons, are they not humans lifes to be respected.



the figures are acccording to Amnesty International and B'Tselem, the Israeli human rights monitoring group.



Amnesty, in fact, reported in 1998: "By Israel's own admission, Lebanese detainees are being held as 'bargaining chips;' they are not detained for their own actions but in exchange for Israeli soldiers missing in action or killed in Lebanon (during the Israeli occupation there). Most have now spent 10 years in secret and isolated detention (and many are still there or have been replaced by other abductees).



and your so called "civilized world" rails about the three IDF prisoners of war, hahahahaha



unconcerned about 10,000 Arab victims because they're Muslims, not white enough, and no criticism of Israel is allowed or tolerated publicly for whatever it does.



i hate ur uniprismatic world man



in no way we gonna

justify your point for a

all out retaliatory war, and in doing it Israel is grievously violating international laws and norms.

but who cares jis ki laathi uski bhens





The results of this war

isthe mass suffering and death of innocent men, women and children (in numbers far greater than reported as they always are) who always pay the greatest price when conflicts begin.



But that's part of Israel's plan as their strategy is always to deliberately inflict great pain on the civilian population of its targets hoping the people affected will blame their ruling authorities for it and turn against them.









the IDF is also reportedly testing in real time some new terror weapons, possibly for the first time. One of them is a thermobaric bomb reported being used freely across Lebanon. bomb contains polymer-bonded or solid fuel-air explosives in its payload. It also has a fuse munition unit (FMU) used on the nose of Israeli artillery shells able to penetrate buildings, underground shelters and tunnels creating such a blast pressure that all the oxygen is sucked out from the spaces and the lungs of anyone in the vicinity. th Lebanese, and likely the Palestinians as well, are their lab rats with consequences to them too horrible to imagine.



imagine



wat all i have to say is have human heart have pity cant do anything for them cant we feel sorry for there suffering instead of keep calling maniacs, bastards,.......

[akshay]

By any interpretation of international law or on moral principles ,

Israel today is committing massive and egregious war crimes and crimes against humanity against the defenseless people of Palestine and Lebanon.

Defenseless?

Yes they defenseless. by all democratic means hamas is appointed as a party to govern themselves. now wats wrong in that its the people who want these extreme views to be governing principle.

Even after such a heinious crime of pogrom modi was elected as a cm. its the people and they support him, his views. So you mean whole of the guj population to be convicted.

You have a valid anology here. Yes the guj population which elects a genocidal CM has to be held accountable along with its elected leader. Otherwise how do you explain millions of people going on a state supported rampage and then electing the same.

But discussing thsi will eb a diversion from the subject topic. Tthsi issue has been discussed before and I had given my opinions then. Open the thread again and I will discuss it again if it pleases you.

wat you are acting as a cheerleaders for the mass killing, crippling destruction, and immiseration of innocent civilians in Lebanon and the forcibly Occupied palestinian territories. and hell bent towards israel !

Your accusation is uncalled for. I have explicitly said Israel has to fight the terrorists using all means it considers appropriate to defend itself for now and for future.

now abt those three soldierswhich were were captured, not "kidnapped"

you have it that israel should kill all those who even support the the capturer

Key phrase is appropriate means. Those who live by the sword die by it. What can anyone do if one chooses to live on a volacano blissly unaware of its explosiveness. Israel is not bombin Egypt for god's sake. It is bombing a place that harbored hezbs. The shrapnel cant separate the hezb among its sympathisers.

can u please
let me know wat abt those nearly 10,000 Palestinian and Lebanese civilians who were forcibly abducted, are now held in indefinite detention! with no signs of lprosecutions in Israeli prisons, are they not humans lifes to be respected.

They are and you have valid criticism. The best way to have dealt with this would have been through discourse. Israel cannot be expected to sit quiet when cross border militias are violent.

the figures are acccording to Amnesty International and B'Tselem, the Israeli human rights monitoring group.

Amnesty, in fact, reported in 1998: "By Israel's own admission, Lebanese detainees are being held as 'bargaining chips;' they are not detained for their own actions but in exchange for Israeli soldiers missing in action or killed in Lebanon (during the Israeli occupation there). Most have now spent 10 years in secret and isolated detention (and many are still there or have been replaced by other abductees).

and your so called "civilized world" rails about the three IDF prisoners of war, hahahahaha

You dont get it. The point is not the current captured soldiers. The point is of the future. How does Israel ensure that it will nto be held hostage to the terrorists and their sympathisers? This can be done only by dealing sternly.

unconcerned about 10,000 Arab victims because they're Muslims, not white enough, and no criticism of Israel is allowed or tolerated publicly for whatever it does.

The last resort of a floundering argument is to cast doubt on the motives of opposing views.

You have no grounds to accuse me of being a muslim hater.

I have repeatedly stated my grudge is against the terrorists and their sympathisers. Now if it so happens that the terrorists are muslims, please dont generalise my grudge to all peace loving muslims too.

i hate ur uniprismatic world man

I dont hate you. This is just a discussion on two ways of lookign at the current scene.

in no way we gonna
justify your point for a
all out retaliatory war, and in doing it Israel is grievously violating international laws and norms.
but who cares jis ki laathi uski bhens

OK give me a clue. How do you think Israel should have acted. It is easy to get enraged at an actively deteriorating situation and forget about the more harmful alternative if this was not chosen.

It is very easy to get excited about surgical strikes during peace times. One should also have the nerve to experience the followig gory scenes if one advocates such strikes.

I am seeing a lot of people who after mumbai blasts passionately advocated "surgical" strikes against terror infrastructure in Pakistan. Now that the realities of such a choice are visible in Lebanon the same people are acting dovish.

The results of this war
isthe mass suffering and death of innocent men, women and children (in numbers far greater than reported as they always are) who always pay the greatest price when conflicts begin.

But that's part of Israel's plan as their strategy is always to deliberately inflict great pain on the civilian population of its targets hoping the people affected will blame their ruling authorities for it and turn against them.

I am in no position to argue what the ulterior motives of Israel could be. All I say is a nation should deal with cross border militias in the most appropriate means available to it.

the IDF is also reportedly testing in real time some new terror weapons, possibly for the first time. One of them is a thermobaric bomb reported being used freely across Lebanon. bomb contains polymer-bonded or solid fuel-air explosives in its payload. It also has a fuse munition unit (FMU) used on the nose of Israeli artillery shells able to penetrate buildings, underground shelters and tunnels creating such a blast pressure that all the oxygen is sucked out from the spaces and the lungs of anyone in the vicinity. th Lebanese, and likely the Palestinians as well, are their lab rats with consequences to them too horrible to imagine.

imagine

wat all i have to say is have human heart have pity cant do anything for them cant we feel sorry for there suffering instead of keep calling maniacs, bastards,.......

you sound emotionally exhausted. I empathise with you. But remember it is the terrorists I am against.

[akshay]

By any interpretation of international law or on moral principles ,

Israel today is committing massive and egregious war crimes and crimes against humanity against the defenseless people of Palestine and Lebanon.

Defenseless?

Yes they defenseless. by all democratic means hamas is appointed as a party to govern themselves. now wats wrong in that its the people who want these extreme views to be governing principle.

Even after such a heinious crime of pogrom modi was elected as a cm. its the people and they support him, his views. So you mean whole of the guj population to be convicted.

You have a valid anology here. Yes the guj population which elects a genocidal CM has to be held accountable along with its elected leader. Otherwise how do you explain millions of people going on a state supported rampage and then electing the same.

But discussing thsi will eb a diversion from the subject topic. Tthsi issue has been discussed before and I had given my opinions then. Open the thread again and I will discuss it again if it pleases you.

wat you are acting as a cheerleaders for the mass killing, crippling destruction, and immiseration of innocent civilians in Lebanon and the forcibly Occupied palestinian territories. and hell bent towards israel !

Your accusation is uncalled for. I have explicitly said Israel has to fight the terrorists using all means it considers appropriate to defend itself for now and for future.

now abt those three soldierswhich were were captured, not "kidnapped"

you have it that israel should kill all those who even support the the capturer

Key phrase is appropriate means. Those who live by the sword die by it. What can anyone do if one chooses to live on a volacano blissly unaware of its explosiveness. Israel is not bombin Egypt for god's sake. It is bombing a place that harbored hezbs. The shrapnel cant separate the hezb among its sympathisers.

can u please
let me know wat abt those nearly 10,000 Palestinian and Lebanese civilians who were forcibly abducted, are now held in indefinite detention! with no signs of lprosecutions in Israeli prisons, are they not humans lifes to be respected.

They are and you have valid criticism. The best way to have dealt with this would have been through discourse. Israel cannot be expected to sit quiet when cross border militias are violent.

the figures are acccording to Amnesty International and B'Tselem, the Israeli human rights monitoring group.

Amnesty, in fact, reported in 1998: "By Israel's own admission, Lebanese detainees are being held as 'bargaining chips;' they are not detained for their own actions but in exchange for Israeli soldiers missing in action or killed in Lebanon (during the Israeli occupation there). Most have now spent 10 years in secret and isolated detention (and many are still there or have been replaced by other abductees).

and your so called "civilized world" rails about the three IDF prisoners of war, hahahahaha

You dont get it. The point is not the current captured soldiers. The point is of the future. How does Israel ensure that it will nto be held hostage to the terrorists and their sympathisers? This can be done only by dealing sternly.

unconcerned about 10,000 Arab victims because they're Muslims, not white enough, and no criticism of Israel is allowed or tolerated publicly for whatever it does.

The last resort of a floundering argument is to cast doubt on the motives of opposing views.

You have no grounds to accuse me of being a muslim hater.

I have repeatedly stated my grudge is against the terrorists and their sympathisers. Now if it so happens that the terrorists are muslims, please dont generalise my grudge to all peace loving muslims too.

i hate ur uniprismatic world man

I dont hate you. This is just a discussion on two ways of lookign at the current scene.

in no way we gonna
justify your point for a
all out retaliatory war, and in doing it Israel is grievously violating international laws and norms.
but who cares jis ki laathi uski bhens

OK give me a clue. How do you think Israel should have acted. It is easy to get enraged at an actively deteriorating situation and forget about the more harmful alternative if this was not chosen.

It is very easy to get excited about surgical strikes during peace times. One should also have the nerve to experience the followig gory scenes if one advocates such strikes.

I am seeing a lot of people who after mumbai blasts passionately advocated "surgical" strikes against terror infrastructure in Pakistan. Now that the realities of such a choice are visible in Lebanon the same people are acting dovish.

The results of this war
isthe mass suffering and death of innocent men, women and children (in numbers far greater than reported as they always are) who always pay the greatest price when conflicts begin.

But that's part of Israel's plan as their strategy is always to deliberately inflict great pain on the civilian population of its targets hoping the people affected will blame their ruling authorities for it and turn against them.

I am in no position to argue what the ulterior motives of Israel could be. All I say is a nation should deal with cross border militias in the most appropriate means available to it.

the IDF is also reportedly testing in real time some new terror weapons, possibly for the first time. One of them is a thermobaric bomb reported being used freely across Lebanon. bomb contains polymer-bonded or solid fuel-air explosives in its payload. It also has a fuse munition unit (FMU) used on the nose of Israeli artillery shells able to penetrate buildings, underground shelters and tunnels creating such a blast pressure that all the oxygen is sucked out from the spaces and the lungs of anyone in the vicinity. th Lebanese, and likely the Palestinians as well, are their lab rats with consequences to them too horrible to imagine.

imagine

wat all i have to say is have human heart have pity cant do anything for them cant we feel sorry for there suffering instead of keep calling maniacs, bastards,.......

you sound emotionally exhausted. I empathise with you. But remember it is the terrorists I am against.

[V]

After Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 1982, the PLO were driven out and had to relocate to Tunisia. After Israel's withdrawal of its main body of forces from Lebanon in June 1985, a small residual Israeli force and an Israeli-supported Lebanese militia were left in a "security zone," a 15 km wide strip of land paralleling the border, a necessary buffer for Israel against attacks on its northern territory.



The situation in Lebanon is closely tied to Israel's ongoing dispute with Syria. About 35,000 Syrian troops, ubiquitous spies and interference in domestic affairs made Syria the de facto ruler of the area after the end of the Lebanese civil war in 1990. The guerrilla war waged by Hezbollah against Israel in southern Lebanon is the heart of Syria's strategy to reclaim the Golan Heights, the strategic plateau that overlooks the Sea of Galilee, under Israeli control since the end of the Six Day War in 1967. Syria hoped that Israel would tire of trying to control Hezbollah's attacks and would eventually agree to return the Golan Heights to Syria in exchange for peace on its northern border. Israel also envisioned a withdrawal from Lebanon within the framework of a peace agreement with Syria.



In mid-2000 Israel withdrew its troops from the security zone in South Lebanon, ending the almost 20-year operation there. Hezbollah guerrillas then turned their attention to the disputed claim for the area called the Sheba'a farms (or Shaba or Chebaa) at the junction of the borders of Syria, Lebanon and Israel. Hezbollah renewed attacks on Israel over their contention that the area belongs to Lebanon. Israeli maps, verified by the United Nations, show the territory as part of Syria which lost it along with the Golan Heights during the 1967 Six Day War. Using the Sheba'a farms dispute as a pretext, Hezbollah continues to attack Israel across the northern border.



In March 2002, Hezbollah terrorists used a collapsible ladder to get over the electronic security fence on the Lebanon border without tripping any alarms. They then carried out a murderous shooting attack against motorists near Kibbutz Matzuva in the western Galilee, in which six Israelis were killed and seven wounded.



After the start of the Israeli Operation Defensive Shield ("Homat Magen" in Israel) against Palestinian Arab terrorists in March 2002, Hezbollah increased cross-border attacks against Israeli positions along its northern border with Lebanon and near Sheba'a farms.

[V]

Hezbollah, which means "Party of God," was founded in Lebanon in 1982, many say by the Iranian leader Ayatollah Khomeini, as a response to Israel's invasion of Lebanon.



The group's aim is to destroy Israel and to create a fundamentalist Islamic state in Lebanon.



Hezbollah has also become a political force in Lebanon, with 14 delegates in the 128-seat national assembly. But its influence is far greater than numbers suggest.



"They have veto power on the decision-making process and practically today nothing can be done in Lebanon officially without Hezbollah sanctioning it," said Hisham Melhem of the An Nahar newspaper in Beirut.



The group is believed to be responsible for hundreds of attacks against Israel, and for organizing the 1983 bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut that resulted in the deaths of 241 Americans.



The group has gained in popularity in southern Lebanon, running schools and hospitals and even a satellite TV channel.



Hezbollah gets most of its arms through Syria, where it has a headquarters, and the group freely admits it gets much of its funding from Iran. Diplomatic sources say the funding includes $20 million to $40 million a month.



Though it is not know whether the current raid into Israel and the capture of soldiers soldiers was done at the instigation of Iran or not, few observers doubt that Iran signed off on the attack.

[CTC]

Israel and arabs should stop this mindless fighting which is continuing forever, if they are not willing to agree for peace they have to fight to finish instead of going on killing innocent civilians. Both Israel and arab armies should come out of their bunkers and fight face to face in open deserts and kill each other till last army man stands. This way innocent civilans are spared of their lifes.

[indiabo]

You have a valid anology here

more then analogy wat i would like to convey is that one should rspect the govt appointed democratically by the people to rule over them. Its the people who thinks that it is in there best interest .

If any such party however right wing opinion it held even though it seats in opposition it helds respect in my eyes as they are the representative.

I have explicitly said Israel has to fight the terrorists using all means it considers appropriate to defend itself for now and for future

you acclaim over here that you want the terrorist to be fought upon.



I will wont use the term terrorist for hezbollah bcoz it needs the broader understanding that who is terrorised by whom?



Mumbai blast is a act of coward terrorist.



but hezbollah are are the one who who are supporting the lebanese in their social system. And by definition idf is said to be terrorising the palestinian by constructing the wall, routine check points....



american are doing so to iraqi population but they are terrorit regime.



even indian police in naxalite quaters are qouted as terrorist. in their villages.



its the people who feel terrorised have the right to say terrorist. we can say LET is a terrorist organization as we are suffering.



you are saying abt defense itself which it should as i have previously said abt ur point of right to survival.



but defense is to pinpoint attack on their enemy not on civilian population.

now you gonna retort that the people who lives by the sword should learn to use it.



but do u wanna say that by this point that you want whole of lebonon to be wiped.



is it not killing innoscent is terrorism becoz there are must be some who dont support hezb. for a mother a child is more imp then politics so they dont want hezb but they cant do anything change thier state of condition.



here comes the humanitarian principles of



war.





have a go at this un official's report.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objecti ... _page.html



i hope shrapnel can be dropped somewhere else.



I too have the opinion that the arabs are a bit thick as they ruled by nuisance regime but the regime is oppresive supported by israel and its allies. and in the end they are who have to suffer the common man!



by the way you didnt had a single statement in support of those arab captured by israel. you have been saying abt the right to defense of israel i would like to hear wat abt the human lives of those arabs.



and how far do u except the international autocracy of the birth of israel. which is even the route cause. after all its a occupation on palestine the sovreign nation.



emotions are integral to human behaviour and i am not exhausted i just feel helplessness. you are against terrorist so do i but you define them through media i analyse them. even please dont take in wrong sense or unpatriotic the act of trio (sardar bhagat singh ) of grenade attack in parliament of british raj was then highlighted as terrorising act. which is not at all.



and all those hezb's attack are seen by many non fighter as the act of liberating lebonon ( before mid 2000).