United States of America: A historical fluke!

[Aishwarya]

The Americans are so lucky that they have had some exceptionally intelligent people who remarkably lacked any sense of self-agrandizement. They seemed much more evolved than any of their contemporaries and went on to create one of the most advanced and successful nations of all time.



Where does India stand? Lets go through this exercise. What should;ve happened to India that wouldve made her the most powerful and successful nation? What can be done now to make that happen?

[Sharjeel]

This reminds me of a 'galactic conquest' game. You could choose to play as a War Monger, Capitalist, Stealth, and other race. One of my favorite was the Jack Of All Trades race, that specialized in nothing, but could do everything quite nicely indeed. It took a lot of timebring up, and always had trouble fending off attack initially from War Mongers and Stealth races. But once it had a good amount of people, and had advanced to a specific level, there was no stopping it! It needed no guns, it overwhelmed the others!



That race is India. We have now progressed far enough, and have started shining. We will overtake everyone and make them submit.

[CtrlAltDel]

IMO, we wud have reached greater heights earlier if:



1) nehru had banned communists



2) indira gandhi hadnt gone on a populist-nationalization spree and imposed the infamous Licence Raj



3) dr.ambedkar had evolved a system of affirmative action, scholarship and good school education for backward classes and poors (USA model for coloreds), instead of this double-edged sword called "Quota" and "Reservation" in higher education and jobs

[R.U Smart]

IF WE CONTINUE TO HAVE POLITICIANS PROMOTING THE CASTE SYSTEMS IN THE 21st CENTURY, WE CANNOT ASPIRE TO ADVANCE AND BE ON PAR WITH THE ADVANCED COUNTRIES.



EVERYTIME THERE ARE ELECTIONS THERE ARE TALKS OF VOTE BANKS EITHER FROM BACKWARD CLASSES OR FROM MINORITIES. THIS HAPPENS ONLY IN INDIA. THEY NEVER TALK ABT THE REFORMS THEY HAVE MADE DURING THEIR ELECTORAL PERIODS. NEARLY 60 YEARS AFTER INDEPENDANCE WE ARE STILL BRAGGING ABOUT THE CASTE SYSTEM IN INDIA.



IN THE US OR EVEN IN THE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES THEY HAVE POOR PEOPLE. BUT IF THE POOR CANNOT JOIN ANY UNIVERSITY, THERE IS NO RESERVATION FOR THEM. SCHOLARSHIPS EXIST--BUT THEY ARE FOR THE DESERVING STUDENTS.

[gyanster]

My solution.. If you can't beat them. Join them, join politics and make a few reforms.. I can't do it..

[Aishwarya]

[quote=



3) dr.ambedkar had evolved a system of affirmative action, scholarship and good school education for backward classes and poors (USA model for coloreds), instead of this double-edged sword called "Quota" and "Reservation" in higher education and jobs[/quote]



TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU SIR. I HATE RESERVATIONS!!



For instance, either Osmania Universiry college of engineering or Jadupur university could be the next IIT. But there is a strong resistance from the telangaana and the SC/ST people and ofcourse some local government that OUCE should not be the next IIT. Obviously, if that happens then they will lose their seats right. I have interatced with people from OUCE, some very good students and I know the agony and turmoil that they had to face just to come up with something called a college magazine. They have had to compromise so much on the quality only to please these rowdies from ABVP that consist of nothing but these backward candidates!

[KK]

One of the reasons is India has huge population. Change in the people, good or bad comes slow.

[ustaad]

The Americans are so lucky that they have had some exceptionally intelligent people who remarkably lacked any sense of self-agrandizement. They seemed much more evolved than any of their contemporaries and went on to create one of the most advanced and successful nations of all time.

Where does India stand? Lets go through this exercise. What should;ve happened to India that wouldve made her the most powerful and successful nation? What can be done now to make that happen?

Well, America has a lot of natural resources and is mostly self- dependent..except oil,potatoes,rice etc...

many of the major invention were made in the US in the past few hundred years.



americans are one of the most hard working people in the world.



america has the highest no. of millionaires in the world (most of them are below 35 yrs.)



and check this interesting article out...taken from "The Secret of American Prosperity "





What made modern capitalism possible and enabled the nations, first of Western Europe and later of central Europe and North America, to eclipse the rest of mankind in productivity was the fact that they created the political, legal, and institutional conditions that made capital accumulation safe. What prevents India, for example, from replacing its host of inefficient cobblers with shoe factories is only the lack of capital. As the Indian government virtually expropriates foreign capitalists and obstructs capital formation by natives, there is no way to remedy this situation. The result is that millions are barefoot in India while the average American buys several pairs of shoes every year.







read more .. http://www.mises.org/efandi/ch38.asp





India is advancing but we still have to focus on eradication of poverty,illiteracy,corruption,pollution etc.

[Aishwarya]

[quote="ustaad



Well, America has a lot of natural resources and is mostly self- dependent..except oil,potatoes,rice etc...

many of the major invention were made in the US in the past few hundred years.



americans are one of the most hard working people in the world.



.[/quote]



VERY TRUE about the natural resources part. There is no dearth of water here. Also that they are very hard working. The other thing that I have noticed about Americans is that they are far more ethical than Indians. I interact with only academicians here and some doctors, but compared to my interactions with academicians in India, I found Amru guys t be more conscientious. My undergrad advior stole my stuff and published two papers out of it without giving me any credit. Here such a thing is illegal!!



Also, what ensures that they stay ethical is the LAW... People are scared of cops in a good way and cops are scared of taking bribes. That rules out corruption as well!



India, illiteracy and corruption have to be removed at any cost!! And ofcourse awareness among people has to be generated about the same!

[Arch]

An interesting topic, aishwarya !



The first thing that HIT me when I stepped onto American soil was that they, the Americans feel that they deserve and owe themselves the best that they can work for.



I saw cleanliness, beauty, comforts, conveniences, pleasing dispositions towards each other, lack of corruption, accountability for themselves and towards others, trusting, lawful.. to mention only a few!



This is what I noticed as I exited out of the San Francisco airport !



I guess, all these come from very hard working, educated, honest, kind people.



Now, arent we Indians hard working? honest? kind? educated- not as much of literacy as yet, ofcourse, but the rest? how many of us Indians are all these, always?



.. ok, atleast most often?

[ustaad]

Also, what ensures that they stay ethical is the LAW... People are scared of cops in a good way and cops are scared of taking bribes. That rules out corruption as well!

Very true. That gives the common people more power just by calling 911 in the US. And there is no room for corruption.



for example : you can pay a traffic ticket or contest it.

you can renew your license online, donot have to bribe people to get simple things done.





Unlike India, where you have to bribe people to expedite your license approval.. have to bribe people to get a birth certificate/death certificate etc..bribe people to just things done..fast.



you see that everywhere. How many of us indians can call the cops and assume that action will be taken immediately (without bribe,ofcourse).



How many of us can sue a police office for wrong doing and not expect harrasment?



thats only one example..

[Reality]

Where does India stand? Lets go through this exercise. What should;ve happened to India that wouldve made her the most powerful and successful nation? What can be done now to make that happen?

India stands nowhere. We are a country that shows racism againest its own kind. where can we expect to develop with that kind of attitude?



When I do introspect, I come up with only one answer that seems definitive. The only reason we as a country can never develop is that, as a race we are morally corrupt and ethically bankrupt.

[KK]

Where does India stand? Lets go through this exercise. What should;ve happened to India that wouldve made her the most powerful and successful nation? What can be done now to make that happen?

India stands nowhere. We are a country that shows racism againest its own kind. where can we expect to develop with that kind of attitude?

When I do introspect, I come up with only one answer that seems definitive. The only reason we as a country can never develop is that, as a race we are morally corrupt and ethically bankrupt.

When I think why - In poverty, the ethics & morals dont mean much.

[KK]

This reminds me of a 'galactic conquest' game.... But once it had a good amount of people, and had advanced to a specific level, there was no stopping it! It needed no guns, it overwhelmed the others!

Precisely, so is the case with 'Age of empires' game

The empire with biggest population, will eventually win!! Go India!

[CtrlAltDel]

This reminds me of a 'galactic conquest' game.... But once it had a good amount of people, and had advanced to a specific level, there was no stopping it! It needed no guns, it overwhelmed the others!

Precisely, so is the case with 'Age of empires' game
The empire with biggest population, will eventually win!! Go India!

yeah..we can spread like ants over all other countries n overwhelm them into submission

[Bimbette]

Where does India stand? Lets go through this exercise. What should;ve happened to India that wouldve made her the most powerful and successful nation? What can be done now to make that happen?

India stands nowhere. We are a country that shows racism againest its own kind. where can we expect to develop with that kind of attitude?

When I do introspect, I come up with only one answer that seems definitive. The only reason we as a country can never develop is that, as a race we are morally corrupt and ethically bankrupt.

When I think why - In poverty, the ethics & morals dont mean much.

I tend to agree with KK's reasoning.



But apart from the poverty stricken, the lack of or the miniscule presence of ethics and morals applies to all stratas of the Indian society.



'India standing nowhere' is probably too harsh a statement to make but the fact remains, we have a long way to go.

[KK]

Well, America has a lot of natural resources and is mostly self- dependent..except oil,potatoes,rice etc...
many of the major invention were made in the US in the past few hundred years.

americans are one of the most hard working people in the world.

america has the highest no. of millionaires in the world (most of them are below 35 yrs.)

also America has got best managers...

Aish, I dont understand why the title of the thread is "USA: A historical FLUKE" ??

[Arch]

Where does India stand? Lets go through this exercise. What should;ve happened to India that wouldve made her the most powerful and successful nation? What can be done now to make that happen?

India stands nowhere. We are a country that shows racism againest its own kind. where can we expect to develop with that kind of attitude?

When I do introspect, I come up with only one answer that seems definitive. The only reason we as a country can never develop is that, as a race we are morally corrupt and ethically bankrupt.

When I think why - In poverty, the ethics & morals dont mean much.

I tend to agree with KK's reasoning.

But apart from the poverty stricken, the lack of or the miniscule presence of ethics and morals applies to all stratas of the Indian society.

'India standing nowhere' is probably too harsh a statement to make but the fact remains, we have a long way to go.

The Europeans did not immigrate w/ all the wealth that Amercia has today. They sure worked for what they have today. They faced Great Depression and came out of that. They faced 2 world wars and came out of that.. there was immence poverty during those periods. yet they stuck to their ethics and morals and did bring thier country to this level...



.. I am just thinking aloud..





education definitely is the most imp. reason. whatelse..

[Mayavi Morpheus]

whatelse..

Self rule during the transformation years/Industrialization? What was the incentive for being ethical/moral in a colonial set up? The whole govt/judicial/administrative setup was modelled to serve the british masters rather than the people. The only way one could survive was to be unethical and morally corrupt. It is very hard to change in 50 years and poverty/illiteracy is not helping either.

[Arch]

whatelse..

Self rule during the transformation years/Industrialization? What was the incentive for being ethical/moral in a colonial set up? The whole govt/judicial/administrative setup was modelled to serve the british masters rather than the people. The only way one could survive was to be unethical and morally corrupt. It is very hard to change in 50 years and poverty/illiteracy is not helping either.

As I was growing up I had seen my family and friends having immense pride to be Indians. I remember that period with no corruption, people used to speak of high morals and they lived with such high values. We had photographs of freedom fighters in our homes as a part of interior decoration. We used to have dinners together with some ex-freedom fighters and their families. The budding, proud, free, educated Indians were all around us. They used to emanate such pride for our country, the difference being they felt it from within. They felt the pride as if they knew they have the reason to be proud of and that they and their forefathers earned it.



I remember them as almost similar to what I said I saw in SFO airport MM- except for cleanliness and such, ofcourse.



If you are understanding my drift.



We were there MM. We had it, just some 3 plus decades ago ! we lost it on the way.



why?

[KK]

The Europeans did not immigrate w/ all the wealth that Amercia has today. They sure worked for what they have today. They faced Great Depression and came out of that. They faced 2 world wars and came out of that.. there was immence poverty during those periods. yet they stuck to their ethics and morals and did bring thier country to this level...

.. I am just thinking aloud..


education definitely is the most imp. reason. whatelse..

Law & order and many other factors. First of all, morals/ethics cannot be absolutely defined - what seems natural might seem immoral to someone else. Slotting a goat, for example.



Given the past deeds of Europeans - Germans slotting Jews, Dutch introducing slavery, English ruthless ruling of half the world, French/Spanish stealing the wealth of other countries - I find it hard to understand that they did stick their ethics in the event of poverty - may be the law/order was powerful enough to being such a control.

[Arch]

Oh, yeah there was always a feeling of togetherness with muslim/parsee/jew/ families as it used to be with other hindu families. We all used to have get togethers and pot lucks where the elders would have serious discussions about the freedom movement and the after effects and how we can avoid the fallouts on us and our friendships.



But now, the politicians play around by dividing us and we allow it. As time passes, we will grow apart and it sure will lead to fights and then eventually to wars.



There will not be much of prosperity if there is war, right? it will all be destruction and further division.

[Aishwarya]

Well, America has a lot of natural resources and is mostly self- dependent..except oil,potatoes,rice etc...
many of the major invention were made in the US in the past few hundred years.

americans are one of the most hard working people in the world.

america has the highest no. of millionaires in the world (most of them are below 35 yrs.)

also America has got best managers...
Aish, I dont understand why the title of the thread is "USA: A historical FLUKE" ??

As I mentioned earlier, America has been lucky that it had some very great leaders, look at the presidents of US. President Roosevelt, he had polio, yet he handled the Great Depression remarkably well. The magnificiant highways in US are a result of that. George Washington, Abraham Lincon, they are all visionaries who inspired people not just by mere talks but deeds as well. Isnt US just plain lucky to have had such great leaders.



Now look at ours! Where do I even start!! Sigh. The ones who had vision were named terrorists! Oh, I dont want to get into that debate now as to who shouldve been our first prime minister..

[Reality]

Well, America has a lot of natural resources and is mostly self- dependent..except oil,potatoes,rice etc...
many of the major invention were made in the US in the past few hundred years.

americans are one of the most hard working people in the world.

america has the highest no. of millionaires in the world (most of them are below 35 yrs.)

also America has got best managers...
Aish, I dont understand why the title of the thread is "USA: A historical FLUKE" ??

As I mentioned earlier, America has been lucky that it had some very great leaders, look at the presidents of US. President Roosevelt, he had polio, yet he handled the Great Depression remarkably well. The magnificiant highways in US are a result of that. George Washington, Abraham Lincon, they are all visionaries who inspired people not just by mere talks but deeds as well. Isnt US just plain lucky to have had such great leaders.

Now look at ours! Where do I even start!! Sigh. The ones who had vision were named terrorists! Oh, I dont want to get into that debate now as to who shouldve been our first prime minister..

The leaders are as good as the people who elect them. Its no fluke. If that generation of americans stood by FDR as he was a great leader, the present citizens chose George W Bush, twice over. Thats no fluke. Well maybe the first time was.. So if our leaders are bad,, thats because we chose them. And I think people always chose their own kind.

[Aishwarya]

The leaders are as good as the people who elect them. Its no fluke. If that generation of americans stood by FDR as he was a great leader, the present citizens chose George W Bush, twice over. Thats no fluke. Well maybe the first time was.. So if our leaders are bad,, thats because we chose them. And I think people always chose their own kind.

I think you are not familiar with the poll rigging that happens in India and how there are duplicates in votes and how pathetic the voting system is. If only there was way of computerizing the whole thing and people could vote from their homes!