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by learned scholar » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:31 am

Mayavi Morpheus wrote:If you have issues with muslims, confront them. Why insult religion without any provocation?
u r the biggest hypocrit :?



all da crap u write showz ur doublesided natuer u pretend 2 be open yet u r hindutva bigotted person



musslem frendz , im against fundemantlist moslems bt not moderate onez . if i say sumthin n u r offended sorri . i waz tryin' 2 make a point datz all ...........

......... & BEWARE of pplz like mayavi ......... dey r da truly dangerous ppl to society not da fundamentalist mullahz .
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by CtrlAltDel » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:47 am

_ off sudakar, we dont need u here...one instance of parinda is more than enuf... :evil:
wtf? i no longer care if my posts hurt yr feelings :roll:
Love me or hate me, u cant ignore me :D
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by learned scholar » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:20 am

CtrlAltDel wrote:_ off sudakar, we dont need u here...one instance of parinda is more than enuf... :evil:
peepz like u creat peepz like parinda :? u cant handle da truth can ya :?:
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by CtrlAltDel » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:31 am

learned scholar wrote:
CtrlAltDel wrote:_ off sudakar, we dont need u here...one instance of parinda is more than enuf... :evil:
peepz like u creat peepz like parinda :? u cant handle da truth can ya :?:
i've seen in the news that yr group just got the life sentence in a mumbai court yesterday...are u posting this from prison?
wtf? i no longer care if my posts hurt yr feelings :roll:
Love me or hate me, u cant ignore me :D
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by learned scholar » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:41 am

CtrlAltDel wrote:
learned scholar wrote:
CtrlAltDel wrote:_ off sudakar, we dont need u here...one instance of parinda is more than enuf... :evil:
peepz like u creat peepz like parinda :? u cant handle da truth can ya :?:
i've seen in the news that yr group just got the life sentence in a mumbai court yesterday...are u posting this from prison?
u like prizon games ??? :wink: :lol:
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by Mayavi Morpheus » Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:19 am

learned scholar wrote:
Mayavi Morpheus wrote:If you have issues with muslims, confront them. Why insult religion without any provocation?
u r the biggest hypocrit :?

all da crap u write showz ur doublesided natuer u pretend 2 be open yet u r hindutva bigotted person

musslem frendz , im against fundemantlist moslems bt not moderate onez . if i say sumthin n u r offended sorri . i waz tryin' 2 make a point datz all ...........
......... & BEWARE of pplz like mayavi ......... dey r da truly dangerous ppl to society not da fundamentalist mullahz .




I think this new pig on the block is another incarnation of the porky parinda. Man he is trying to bat for both sides... lol
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We should fear Holland’s silence

by ***** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:23 am

Islamists are stifling debate in what was Europe’s freest country, says Douglas Murray

‘Would you write the name you’d like to use here, and your real name there?” asked the girl at reception. I had just been driven to a hotel in the Hague. An hour earlier I’d been greeted at Amsterdam airport by a man holding a sign with a pre-agreed cipher. I hadn’t known where I would be staying, or where I would be speaking. The secrecy was necessary: I had come to Holland to talk about Islam.



Last weekend, four years after his murder, Pim Fortuyn’s political party, Lijst Pim Fortuyn, held a conference in his memory on Islam and Europe. The organisers had assembled nearly all the writers most critical of Islam’s current manifestation in the West. The American scholars Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer were present, as were the Egyptian-Jewish exile and scholar of dhimmitude, Bat Ye’or, and the great Muslim apostate Ibn Warraq.



Both Ye’or and Warraq write and speak under pseudonyms. Standing at the hotel desk I confessed to the girl that I didn’t have any other name, couldn’t think of a good one fast. I was given my key and made aware that the other person in the lobby, a tall figure in a dark suit, was my security detail. I was taken up to my room where I changed, unpacked and headed back out — the security guard now positioned outside my bedroom door.



I had been invited to deliver the closing speech to the memorial conference on what would have been Fortuyn’s 58th birthday. I said I would talk on the effects of Europe’s increasingly Islamicised population and advocate a tougher European counterterror strategy. There was no overriding political agenda to the occasion, simply a desire for frank discussion.



The event was scholarly, incisive and wide-ranging. There were no ranters or rabble-rousers, just an invited audience of academics, writers, politicians and sombre party members. As yet another example of Islam’s violent confrontation with the West (this time caused by cartoons) swept across the globe, we tried to discuss Islam as openly as we could. The Dutch security service in the Hague was among those who considered the threat to us for doing this as particularly high. The security status of the event was put at just one level below “national emergency”.



This may seem fantastic to people in Britain. But the story of Holland — which I have been charting for some years — should be noted by her allies. Where Holland has gone, Britain and the rest of Europe are following. The silencing happens bit by bit. A student paper in Britain that ran the Danish cartoons got pulped. A London magazine withdrew the cartoons from its website after the British police informed the editor they could not protect him, his staff, or his offices from attack. This happened only days before the police provided 500 officers to protect a “peaceful” Muslim protest in Trafalgar Square.



It seems the British police — who regularly provide protection for mosques (as they did after the 7/7 bombs) — were unable to send even one policeman to protect an organ of free speech. At the notorious London protests, Islamists were allowed to incite murder and bloodshed on the streets, but a passer-by objecting to these displays was threatened with detention for making trouble.



Holland — with its disproportionately high Muslim population — is the canary in the mine. Its once open society is closing, and Europe is closing slowly behind it. It looks, from Holland, like the twilight of liberalism — not the “liberalism” that is actually libertarianism, but the liberalism that is freedom. Not least freedom of expression.



All across Europe, debate on Islam is being stopped. Italy’s greatest living writer, Oriana Fallaci, soon comes up for trial in her home country, and in Britain the government seems intent on pushing through laws that would make truths about Islam and the conduct of its followers impossible to voice.



Those of us who write and talk on Islam thus get caught between those on our own side who are increasingly keen to prosecute and increasing numbers of militants threatening murder. In this situation, not only is free speech being shut down, but our nation’s security is being compromised.



Since the assassinations of Fortuyn and, in 2004, the film maker Theo van Gogh, numerous public figures in Holland have received death threats and routine intimidation. The heroic Somali-born Dutch MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali and her equally outspoken colleague Geert Wilders live under constant police protection, often forced to sleep on army bases. Even university professors are under protection.



Europe is shuffling into darkness. It is proving incapable of standing up to its enemies, and in an effort to accommodate the peripheral rights of a minority is failing to protect the most basic rights of its own people.



The governments of Europe have been tricked into believing that criticism of a belief is the same thing as criticism of a race. And so it is becoming increasingly difficult and dangerous to criticise a growing and powerful ideology within our midst. It may soon, in addition, be made illegal.



I had planned — the morning after my speech — to see Geert Wilders, but instead spent the time catching up with his staff. Their leader had been called in by the police to discuss more than 40 new death threats he had received over the previous days.



As I left the Netherlands I once again felt terrible sorrow for a country that is slowly being lost. A society which should be carefree and inspiring has become dark and worried. The jihad in Europe is winning. And Holland, and our continent, takes one step further into a dark and menacing future.
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Re: We should fear Holland’s silence

by Reality. » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:05 am

I think the best response would be to evolve into a world without religion as we as a species have proven beyond doubt that being secular is beyond our capabilities. And since we cant do something that is essentially "human" I guess the only solution is left is to isolate each other.
The westren countries would be better off with out immigrants from other cultures and sensibilities. and we would be better off in our own country doing whatever we feel is right.
The dream of one world is as distant today as it will ever be.
Homo Sapiens is the worst species to evolve or according to religious basis - the worst creation of GOD.
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by samai » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:23 am

such a defeatist thought !
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Top cleric: Murder Jews in Islam's name

by samai » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:00 am

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 52,00.html



Top cleric: Murder Jews in Islam's name



Top Islamist cleric Sheikh Yousef al-Qaradawi has delivered a speech on Qatari television calling on Muslims to murder Jews in "in the name of Islam." The speech has been translated by the Arabic translation service MEMRI .





On February 25, Qaradawi told viewers: "Everything will be on our side and against Jews on (Judgment Day); at that time, even the stones and the trees will speak, with or without words, and say: 'Oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim, there's a Jew behind me, come and kill him. They will point to the Jews."





"It says 'servant of Allah,' not 'servant of desires,' 'servant of women,' 'servant of the bottle,' 'servant of Marxism,' or 'servant of liberalism'... It said 'servant of Allah,'" added Qaradawi.





Emphasizing the Islamic nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and attempting to denigrate the role of Arab nationalism, Qaradawi

said: "When the Muslims, the Arabs, and the Palestinians enter a war, they do it to worship Allah. They enter it as Muslims. The hadith says: 'Oh Muslim.' It says 'oh Muslim,' not 'oh Palestinian, Jordanian, Syrian, or Arab nationalist.' No, it says: 'Oh Muslim.' When we enter (a war) under the banner of Islam, and under the banner of serving Allah, we will be victorious."





Qaradawi, who is seen as a highly influential religious leader, also threatened that if Palestinians were reluctant to carry out a jihad, other Muslims would take their place.





"We are fighting them in the name of Islam, because Islam commands us to fight whoever plunders our land, and occupies our country. All the school of Islamic jurisprudence - the Sunni, the Shiite, the Ibadhiya - and all the ancient and modern schools of jurisprudence - agree that any invader who occupies even an inch of land of the Muslims must face resistance," he said.





"The Muslims of that country must carry out the resistance, and the rest of the Muslims must help them. If the people of that country are incapable or reluctant, we must fight to defend the land of Islam, even if the local (Muslims) give it up," added Qaradawi.





Qaradawi, a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, was invited to London in 2004 by Mayor Ken Livingstone, who then described the cleric as a "progressive figure."
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by selective MEMRI » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:05 am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/jou ... 58,00.html



Selective Memri



Brian Whitaker investigates whether the 'independent' media institute that translates the Arabic newspapers is quite what it seems



Monday August 12, 2002





For some time now, I have been receiving small gifts from a generous institute in the United States. The gifts are high-quality translations of articles from Arabic newspapers which the institute sends to me by email every few days, entirely free-of-charge.

The emails also go to politicians and academics, as well as to lots of other journalists. The stories they contain are usually interesting.







Whenever I get an email from the institute, several of my Guardian colleagues receive one too and regularly forward their copies to me - sometimes with a note suggesting that I might like to check out the story and write about it.

If the note happens to come from a more senior colleague, I'm left feeling that I really ought to write about it. One example last week was a couple of paragraphs translated by the institute, in which a former doctor in the Iraqi army claimed that Saddam Hussein had personally given orders to amputate the ears of military deserters.



The organisation that makes these translations and sends them out is the Middle East Media Research Institute (Memri), based in Washington but with recently-opened offices in London, Berlin and Jerusalem.



Its work is subsidised by US taxpayers because as an "independent, non-partisan, non-profit" organisation, it has tax-deductible status under American law.



Memri's purpose, according to its website, is to bridge the language gap between the west - where few speak Arabic - and the Middle East, by "providing timely translations of Arabic, Farsi, and Hebrew media".



Despite these high-minded statements, several things make me uneasy whenever I'm asked to look at a story circulated by Memri. First of all, it's a rather mysterious organisation. Its website does not give the names of any people to contact, not even an office address.



The reason for this secrecy, according to a former employee, is that "they don't want suicide bombers walking through the door on Monday morning" (Washington Times, June 20).



This strikes me as a somewhat over-the-top precaution for an institute that simply wants to break down east-west language barriers.



The second thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel. I am not alone in this unease.



Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told the Washington Times: "Memri's intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible."



Memri might, of course, argue that it is seeking to encourage moderation by highlighting the blatant examples of intolerance and extremism. But if so, one would expect it - for the sake of non-partisanship - t o publicise extremist articles in the Hebrew media too.



Although Memri claims that it does provide translations from Hebrew media, I can't recall receiving any.



Evidence from Memri's website also casts doubt on its non-partisan status. Besides supporting liberal democracy, civil society, and the free market, the institute also emphasises "the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel".



That is what its website used to say, but the words about Zionism have now been deleted. The original page, however, can still be found in internet archives.



The reason for Memri's air of secrecy becomes clearer when we look at the people behind it. The co-founder and president of Memri, and the registered owner of its website, is an Israeli called Yigal Carmon.

Mr - or rather, Colonel - Carmon spent 22 years in Israeli military intelligence and later served as counter-terrorism adviser to two Israeli prime ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin.



Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri's website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three - including Col Carmon - are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence.



Among the other three, one served in the Israeli army's Northern Command Ordnance Corps, one has an academic background, and the sixth is a former stand-up comedian.



Col Carmon's co-founder at Memri is Meyrav Wurmser, who is also director of the centre for Middle East policy at the Indianapolis-based Hudson Institute, which bills itself as "America's premier source of applied research on enduring policy challenges".



The ubiquitous Richard Perle, chairman of the Pentagon's defence policy board, recently joined Hudson's board of trustees.



Ms Wurmser is the author of an academic paper entitled Can Israel Survive Post-Zionism? in which she argues that leftwing Israeli intellectuals pose "more than a passing threat" to the state of Israel, undermining its soul and reducing its will for self-defence.



In addition, Ms Wurmser is a highly qualified, internationally recognised, inspiring and knowledgeable speaker on the Middle East whose presence would make any "event, radio or television show a unique one" - according to Benador Associates, a public relations company which touts her services.



Nobody, so far as I know, disputes the general accuracy of Memri's translations but there are other reasons to be concerned about its output.



The email it circulated last week about Saddam Hussein ordering people's ears to be cut off was an extract from a longer article in the pan-Arab newspaper, al-Hayat, by Adil Awadh who claimed to have first-hand knowledge of it.



It was the sort of tale about Iraqi brutality that newspapers would happily reprint without checking, especially in the current atmosphere of war fever. It may well be true, but it needs to be treated with a little circumspection.



Mr Awadh is not exactly an independent figure. He is, or at least was, a member of the Iraqi National Accord, an exiled Iraqi opposition group backed by the US - and neither al-Hayat nor Memri mentioned this.



Also, Mr Awadh's allegation first came to light some four years ago, when he had a strong personal reason for making it. According to a Washington Post report in 1998, the amputation claim formed part of his application for political asylum in the United States.



At the time, he was one of six Iraqis under arrest in the US as suspected terrorists or Iraqi intelligence agents, and he was trying to show that the Americans had made a mistake.



Earlier this year, Memri scored two significant propaganda successes against Saudi Arabia. The first was its translation of an article from al-Riyadh newspaper in which a columnist wrote that Jews use the blood of Christian or Muslim children in pastries for the Purim religious festival.



The writer, a university teacher, was apparently relying on an anti-semitic myth that dates back to the middle ages. What this demonstrated, more than anything, was the ignorance of many Arabs - even those highly educated - about Judaism and Israel, and their readiness to believe such ridiculous stories.



But Memri claimed al-Riyadh was a Saudi "government newspaper" - in fact it's privately owned - implying that the article had some form of official approval.



Al-Riyadh's editor said he had not seen the article before publication because he had been abroad. He apologised without hesitation and sacked his columnist, but by then the damage had been done.



Memri's next success came a month later when Saudi Arabia's ambassador to London wrote a poem entitled The Martyrs - about a young woman suicide bomber - which was published in al-Hayat newspaper.



Memri sent out translated extracts from the poem, which it described as "praising suicide bombers". Whether that was the poem's real message is a matter of interpretation. It could, perhaps more plausibly, be read as condemning the political ineffectiveness of Arab leaders, but Memri's interpretation was reported, almost without question, by the western media.



These incidents involving Saudi Arabia should not be viewed in isolation. They are part of building a case against the kingdom and persuading the United States to treat it as an enemy, rather than an ally.



It's a campaign that the Israeli government and American neo-conservatives have been pushing since early this year - one aspect of which was the bizarre anti-Saudi briefing at the Pentagon, hosted last month by Richard Perle.



To anyone who reads Arabic newspapers regularly, it should be obvious that the items highlighted by Memri are those that suit its agenda and are not representative of the newspapers' content as a whole.



The danger is that many of the senators, congressmen and "opinion formers" who don't read Arabic but receive Memri's emails may get the idea that these extreme examples are not only truly representative but also reflect the policies of Arab governments.



Memri's Col Carmon seems eager to encourage them in that belief. In Washington last April, in testimony to the House committee on international relations, he portrayed the Arab media as part of a wide-scale system of government-sponsored indoctrination.



"The controlled media of the Arab governments conveys hatred of the west, and in particular, of the United States," he said. "Prior to September 11, one could frequently find articles which openly supported, or even called for, terrorist attacks against the United States ...



"The United States is sometimes compared to Nazi Germany, President Bush to Hitler, Guantanamo to Auschwitz," he said.



In the case of the al-Jazeera satellite channel, he added, "the overwhelming majority of guests and callers are typically anti-American and anti-semitic".



Unfortunately, it is on the basis of such sweeping generalisations that much of American foreign policy is built these days.



As far as relations between the west and the Arab world are concerned, language is a barrier that perpetuates ignorance and can easily foster misunderstanding.



All it takes is a small but active group of Israelis to exploit that barrier for their own ends and start changing western perceptions of Arabs for the worse.



It is not difficult to see what Arabs might do to counter that. A group of Arab media companies could get together and publish translations of articles that more accurately reflect the content of their newspapers.



It would certainly not be beyond their means. But, as usual, they may prefer to sit back and grumble about the machinations of Israeli intelligence veterans.
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by Reality » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:34 am

samai wrote:such a defeatist thought !




well we all can see what the other option got us into.

Innocent people who have nothing to do with any of this die everyday becoz of someone elses religious values.
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by angry » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:33 pm

[quote="selective MEMRI"]...



The reason for this secrecy, according to a former employee, is that "they don't want suicide bombers walking through the door on Monday morning" (Washington Times, June 20).



This strikes me as a somewhat over-the-top precaution for an institute that simply wants to break down east-west language barriers.



The second thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by [color=red][b]Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel[/b].[/color] I am not alone in this unease.



...[/quote]



Oh, yeah ? what is happening to the Danish cartoonists, Hon? What happened regarding the same $rap all over the world, every friday too, sweetie? the killings and the burnings !! such double faces !!
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