Well, looks like old times, just when we all think that India will beat the crap out of their traditional rivals, we are disappointed, miserably.
While Tendulkar did his job and added another century to his stats, it went in vain. And while India did not lose the match, Pakistan won it.
Please let us discuss this series in this thread here.
Cheers.
gyanster
Pakistan vs India One Day International Series
Moderator: The Moderator Team
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as long as we have this poor bowling lin up, we will continue to lose.Sharjeel wrote:We did not play badly, they are just too good and in-form at the moment.
People are crazy, at times are strange. I am locked-in tight, I am out of range.
I used to care, but things have changed.
I used to care, but things have changed.
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akhilis2cool - God!
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bow ... Bow ... BOW
eh? kya?!
***** eh? kya?! ... bow ... Bow ... BOW ... BOW ... eh? kya?! ...
- yeh ... hamaaraa ... kuttaa hai miyan ... "BOWser sanguly" is ka naam ... ab retire honeywalaich ... awaz khatm samjhoch ...
- girgut ... girgut ... girgut ... girr ... gutt ... girrrr gutt ...
- kirkut ... kirkut ... kirkut ... kirr ... kutt ... kirrrr kutt ...
- but ... but ... but ... bat ... Bat ... BAT!
- bow ... Bow ... BOW***** ... bowl ... Bwl ... BOWL!
- fil hal ... Fil Hal ... FIELD HOLD!
***** eh? kya?! ... bow ... Bow ... BOW ... BOW ... eh? kya?! ...
- yeh ... hamaaraa ... kuttaa hai miyan ... "BOWser sanguly" is ka naam ... ab retire honeywalaich ... awaz khatm samjhoch ...
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HH - Level 1 Deity
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Here's my low-down on the preface to the series; the one match that's over and the four more to come.
First of all, did the Indians go into the series in the right frame of mind? Though the Indian team's performance will look really great on paper; the players know it pretty well that when they did score big, they were batting on dream wickets for batsmen. When they got a result-oriented pitch, one where everyone (batsmen, pacers and spinners) had something for them at some point of the game, they were hugely outplayed in every department. And save Yuvraj, to some extent Ganguly & the tailenders, none of the Indians looked comfortable against the pakistani pace attack.
Secondly, the controversies sorrounding the selection for the ODI team. Agreed, a lot of people had misgivings about players having been dropped. The exclusion of Ganguly & Laxman were definitely debatable but at the same time, we must also appreciate the fact that none of the inclusions were debatable. Each member of the team made it there on merit and since the team has a limit of 16, some exclusions are unfortunate but necessary.
Moreover, when the team is on tour to its traditional rival, and that too a tour which has ramifications beyond the cricketing field and record books, they have to cope up with a lot. Case in point - the insult to the tricolour in Peshawar. In such hard times, they could do better without certain stupid acts by some people or bodies.
Dada - you have a mass support across the country. And people are rallying behind you. Do you think this is the right time to engage in mindgames with the selectors and that too through a symbol of sensational journalism?
Fans - we know your icons have been slighted. But is this the right time to burn effigies and vent verbal, vocal and electronic venom? Don't you think the energies you expended on all that could have been better utilised supporting the Men in Blue? (I have to accept here in all sincerity that I myself am a big venom venter at times and I should restrain myself in future).
Media - Don't you think the team can do without the Ganguly interview all over the times group publications and channels (I don't read filmfare or femina and neither do I watch Zoom TV but I'm sure Ganguly's interview would have found its way in them too); Navjot Sidhu week in and week out on NDTV enjoying the role of Lone Crusader for Ganguly's cause but boring the hell out of anyone within audible distance; the underinformed Star News crew who don't know the C of cricket but waste 50% of their airtime on Cricket coverage when a series like this is on?
The team came into the series under the circumstances mentioned above and that's not an easy task. But the way they played at Peshawar was heartwarming enough for an optimist like me. Live today to fight another day. They went down but not out...fought to the end.
They took the attack to the Pakistanis with some serious Chappellesque gamesmanship. Dravid declaring to the media that they will not experiment with the batting order in the ODI's. The Pakis take the bait and come into the match with a gameplan. Sachin and Sehwag open as per the gameplan but India one down and out walks Pathan the pinch hitter. The paki gameplan is thrown into a disarray and India went on to post a 300+ score which becomes a psychological plus by itself. The great SRT silenced his critics with a fluent century with a good strike rate too. Though the experimentation was carried a bit too far IMO and Dhoni could have been saved for the end. Maybe this would have got us another 20 odd runs on the board. But then the 328 wasn't bad either. Finally, they lost it due to the quirky but standard Duckworth-Lewis rule. And it was a match that could have swung India's way had they snicked off a wicket in the over Yuvraj was about to bowl. They were aggressive on the field and the manner in which they got Inzy's wicket was again a psychological one-up. However hard might the paki camp try to downplay it by calling it unsportsmanlike and even going to the extent of threatening bad blood, the damage has been done and the tone has been set for the series. The men in blue are not going to give it away on a platter. So, although India lost the first match, the teams will go into the second match on an even keel.
The Indian bowling was tame and that's going to be a problem for the Indian camp throughout the series. But unlike the tests, it won't be a match-winning weakness. All the bowlers need to do is to stay disciplined and restrict runs. This would also need some very crucial fielding placements that Dravid would have to make and that'll be a good learning experience for him. My say on the matches to come will be pitch dependant. On good batting tracks, I give both teams a 50-50. On pitches assisting pacers for more than the first few overs or those aiding reverse swing, I give it a 60-40 in favour of Pakistan. And on pitches favouring spin, I give India a 55-45 edge.
Finally, I wish the Men in Blue the best for the matches to come in this series and expect to see some spirited performances from them.
First of all, did the Indians go into the series in the right frame of mind? Though the Indian team's performance will look really great on paper; the players know it pretty well that when they did score big, they were batting on dream wickets for batsmen. When they got a result-oriented pitch, one where everyone (batsmen, pacers and spinners) had something for them at some point of the game, they were hugely outplayed in every department. And save Yuvraj, to some extent Ganguly & the tailenders, none of the Indians looked comfortable against the pakistani pace attack.
Secondly, the controversies sorrounding the selection for the ODI team. Agreed, a lot of people had misgivings about players having been dropped. The exclusion of Ganguly & Laxman were definitely debatable but at the same time, we must also appreciate the fact that none of the inclusions were debatable. Each member of the team made it there on merit and since the team has a limit of 16, some exclusions are unfortunate but necessary.
Moreover, when the team is on tour to its traditional rival, and that too a tour which has ramifications beyond the cricketing field and record books, they have to cope up with a lot. Case in point - the insult to the tricolour in Peshawar. In such hard times, they could do better without certain stupid acts by some people or bodies.
Dada - you have a mass support across the country. And people are rallying behind you. Do you think this is the right time to engage in mindgames with the selectors and that too through a symbol of sensational journalism?
Fans - we know your icons have been slighted. But is this the right time to burn effigies and vent verbal, vocal and electronic venom? Don't you think the energies you expended on all that could have been better utilised supporting the Men in Blue? (I have to accept here in all sincerity that I myself am a big venom venter at times and I should restrain myself in future).
Media - Don't you think the team can do without the Ganguly interview all over the times group publications and channels (I don't read filmfare or femina and neither do I watch Zoom TV but I'm sure Ganguly's interview would have found its way in them too); Navjot Sidhu week in and week out on NDTV enjoying the role of Lone Crusader for Ganguly's cause but boring the hell out of anyone within audible distance; the underinformed Star News crew who don't know the C of cricket but waste 50% of their airtime on Cricket coverage when a series like this is on?
The team came into the series under the circumstances mentioned above and that's not an easy task. But the way they played at Peshawar was heartwarming enough for an optimist like me. Live today to fight another day. They went down but not out...fought to the end.
They took the attack to the Pakistanis with some serious Chappellesque gamesmanship. Dravid declaring to the media that they will not experiment with the batting order in the ODI's. The Pakis take the bait and come into the match with a gameplan. Sachin and Sehwag open as per the gameplan but India one down and out walks Pathan the pinch hitter. The paki gameplan is thrown into a disarray and India went on to post a 300+ score which becomes a psychological plus by itself. The great SRT silenced his critics with a fluent century with a good strike rate too. Though the experimentation was carried a bit too far IMO and Dhoni could have been saved for the end. Maybe this would have got us another 20 odd runs on the board. But then the 328 wasn't bad either. Finally, they lost it due to the quirky but standard Duckworth-Lewis rule. And it was a match that could have swung India's way had they snicked off a wicket in the over Yuvraj was about to bowl. They were aggressive on the field and the manner in which they got Inzy's wicket was again a psychological one-up. However hard might the paki camp try to downplay it by calling it unsportsmanlike and even going to the extent of threatening bad blood, the damage has been done and the tone has been set for the series. The men in blue are not going to give it away on a platter. So, although India lost the first match, the teams will go into the second match on an even keel.
The Indian bowling was tame and that's going to be a problem for the Indian camp throughout the series. But unlike the tests, it won't be a match-winning weakness. All the bowlers need to do is to stay disciplined and restrict runs. This would also need some very crucial fielding placements that Dravid would have to make and that'll be a good learning experience for him. My say on the matches to come will be pitch dependant. On good batting tracks, I give both teams a 50-50. On pitches assisting pacers for more than the first few overs or those aiding reverse swing, I give it a 60-40 in favour of Pakistan. And on pitches favouring spin, I give India a 55-45 edge.
Finally, I wish the Men in Blue the best for the matches to come in this series and expect to see some spirited performances from them.
In un foro nella terra, viva un hobbit
-
Cricket Lover HP - Level 1 Lord
- Posts: 2527
- Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 4:28 am
- Location: Omnipresent
Here's my low-down on the preface to the series; the one match that's over and the four more to come.
First of all, did the Indians go into the series in the right frame of mind? Though the Indian team's performance will look really great on paper; the players know it pretty well that when they did score big, they were batting on dream wickets for batsmen. When they got a result-oriented pitch, one where everyone (batsmen, pacers and spinners) had something for them at some point of the game, they were hugely outplayed in every department. And save Yuvraj, to some extent Ganguly & the tailenders, none of the Indians looked comfortable against the pakistani pace attack.
Secondly, the controversies sorrounding the selection for the ODI team. Agreed, a lot of people had misgivings about players having been dropped. The exclusion of Ganguly & Laxman were definitely debatable but at the same time, we must also appreciate the fact that none of the inclusions were debatable. Each member of the team made it there on merit and since the team has a limit of 16, some exclusions are unfortunate but necessary.
Moreover, when the team is on tour to its traditional rival, and that too a tour which has ramifications beyond the cricketing field and record books, they have to cope up with a lot. Case in point - the insult to the tricolour in Peshawar. In such hard times, they could do better without certain stupid acts by some people or bodies.
Dada - you have a mass support across the country. And people are rallying behind you. Do you think this is the right time to engage in mindgames with the selectors and that too through a symbol of sensational journalism?
Fans - we know your icons have been slighted. But is this the right time to burn effigies and vent verbal, vocal and electronic venom? Don't you think the energies you expended on all that could have been better utilised supporting the Men in Blue? (I have to accept here in all sincerity that I myself am a big venom venter at times and I should restrain myself in future).
Media - Don't you think the team can do without the Ganguly interview all over the times group publications and channels (I don't read filmfare or femina and neither do I watch Zoom TV but I'm sure Ganguly's interview would have found its way in them too); Navjot Sidhu week in and week out on NDTV enjoying the role of Lone Crusader for Ganguly's cause but boring the hell out of anyone within audible distance; the underinformed Star News crew who don't know the C of cricket but waste 50% of their airtime on Cricket coverage when a series like this is on?
The team came into the series under the circumstances mentioned above and that's not an easy task. But the way they played at Peshawar was heartwarming enough for an optimist like me. Live today to fight another day. They went down but not out...fought to the end.
They took the attack to the Pakistanis with some serious Chappellesque gamesmanship. Dravid declaring to the media that they will not experiment with the batting order in the ODI's. The Pakis take the bait and come into the match with a gameplan. Sachin and Sehwag open as per the gameplan but India one down and out walks Pathan the pinch hitter. The paki gameplan is thrown into a disarray and India went on to post a 300+ score which becomes a psychological plus by itself. The great SRT silenced his critics with a fluent century with a good strike rate too. Though the experimentation was carried a bit too far IMO and Dhoni could have been saved for the end. Maybe this would have got us another 20 odd runs on the board. But then the 328 wasn't bad either. Finally, they lost it due to the quirky but standard Duckworth-Lewis rule. And it was a match that could have swung India's way had they snicked off a wicket in the over Yuvraj was about to bowl. They were aggressive on the field and the manner in which they got Inzy's wicket was again a psychological one-up. However hard might the paki camp try to downplay it by calling it unsportsmanlike and even going to the extent of threatening bad blood, the damage has been done and the tone has been set for the series. The men in blue are not going to give it away on a platter. So, although India lost the first match, the teams will go into the second match on an even keel.
The Indian bowling was tame and that's going to be a problem for the Indian camp throughout the series. But unlike the tests, it won't be a match-winning weakness. All the bowlers need to do is to stay disciplined and restrict runs. This would also need some very crucial fielding placements that Dravid would have to make and that'll be a good learning experience for him. My say on the matches to come will be pitch dependant. On good batting tracks, I give both teams a 50-50. On pitches assisting pacers for more than the first few overs or those aiding reverse swing, I give it a 60-40 in favour of Pakistan. And on pitches favouring spin, I give India a 55-45 edge.
Finally, I wish the Men in Blue the best for the matches to come in this series and expect to see some spirited performances from them.
First of all, did the Indians go into the series in the right frame of mind? Though the Indian team's performance will look really great on paper; the players know it pretty well that when they did score big, they were batting on dream wickets for batsmen. When they got a result-oriented pitch, one where everyone (batsmen, pacers and spinners) had something for them at some point of the game, they were hugely outplayed in every department. And save Yuvraj, to some extent Ganguly & the tailenders, none of the Indians looked comfortable against the pakistani pace attack.
Secondly, the controversies sorrounding the selection for the ODI team. Agreed, a lot of people had misgivings about players having been dropped. The exclusion of Ganguly & Laxman were definitely debatable but at the same time, we must also appreciate the fact that none of the inclusions were debatable. Each member of the team made it there on merit and since the team has a limit of 16, some exclusions are unfortunate but necessary.
Moreover, when the team is on tour to its traditional rival, and that too a tour which has ramifications beyond the cricketing field and record books, they have to cope up with a lot. Case in point - the insult to the tricolour in Peshawar. In such hard times, they could do better without certain stupid acts by some people or bodies.
Dada - you have a mass support across the country. And people are rallying behind you. Do you think this is the right time to engage in mindgames with the selectors and that too through a symbol of sensational journalism?
Fans - we know your icons have been slighted. But is this the right time to burn effigies and vent verbal, vocal and electronic venom? Don't you think the energies you expended on all that could have been better utilised supporting the Men in Blue? (I have to accept here in all sincerity that I myself am a big venom venter at times and I should restrain myself in future).
Media - Don't you think the team can do without the Ganguly interview all over the times group publications and channels (I don't read filmfare or femina and neither do I watch Zoom TV but I'm sure Ganguly's interview would have found its way in them too); Navjot Sidhu week in and week out on NDTV enjoying the role of Lone Crusader for Ganguly's cause but boring the hell out of anyone within audible distance; the underinformed Star News crew who don't know the C of cricket but waste 50% of their airtime on Cricket coverage when a series like this is on?
The team came into the series under the circumstances mentioned above and that's not an easy task. But the way they played at Peshawar was heartwarming enough for an optimist like me. Live today to fight another day. They went down but not out...fought to the end.
They took the attack to the Pakistanis with some serious Chappellesque gamesmanship. Dravid declaring to the media that they will not experiment with the batting order in the ODI's. The Pakis take the bait and come into the match with a gameplan. Sachin and Sehwag open as per the gameplan but India one down and out walks Pathan the pinch hitter. The paki gameplan is thrown into a disarray and India went on to post a 300+ score which becomes a psychological plus by itself. The great SRT silenced his critics with a fluent century with a good strike rate too. Though the experimentation was carried a bit too far IMO and Dhoni could have been saved for the end. Maybe this would have got us another 20 odd runs on the board. But then the 328 wasn't bad either. Finally, they lost it due to the quirky but standard Duckworth-Lewis rule. And it was a match that could have swung India's way had they snicked off a wicket in the over Yuvraj was about to bowl. They were aggressive on the field and the manner in which they got Inzy's wicket was again a psychological one-up. However hard might the paki camp try to downplay it by calling it unsportsmanlike and even going to the extent of threatening bad blood, the damage has been done and the tone has been set for the series. The men in blue are not going to give it away on a platter. So, although India lost the first match, the teams will go into the second match on an even keel.
The Indian bowling was tame and that's going to be a problem for the Indian camp throughout the series. But unlike the tests, it won't be a match-winning weakness. All the bowlers need to do is to stay disciplined and restrict runs. This would also need some very crucial fielding placements that Dravid would have to make and that'll be a good learning experience for him. My say on the matches to come will be pitch dependant. On good batting tracks, I give both teams a 50-50. On pitches assisting pacers for more than the first few overs or those aiding reverse swing, I give it a 60-40 in favour of Pakistan. And on pitches favouring spin, I give India a 55-45 edge.
Finally, I wish the Men in Blue the best for the matches to come in this series and expect to see some spirited performances from them.
In un foro nella terra, viva un hobbit
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Cricket Lover HP - Level 1 Lord
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Cricket Lover HP wrote:The Indian bowling was tame and that's going to be a problem for the Indian camp throughout the series. But unlike the tests, it won't be a match-winning weakness.
Sorry for that. I meant match-losing weakness.
In un foro nella terra, viva un hobbit
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Cricket Lover HP - Level 1 Lord
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Posting twice ???
Dude, we get it - you are 'Cricket Lover' and 'God'. But do you have to post twice for us to get it. Kidding.
That aside, do you guys know any websites where we can watch the games. There is willow.tv, apart from that there is desicricketlive.com where I watch. I came across the site tamillivemovies.com/live-cricket-streaming.asp but never really tried it.
Any others ... ???
That aside, do you guys know any websites where we can watch the games. There is willow.tv, apart from that there is desicricketlive.com where I watch. I came across the site tamillivemovies.com/live-cricket-streaming.asp but never really tried it.
Any others ... ???
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Whiz - Registered User
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Case in point - the insult to the tricolour in Peshawar
What insult?
Btw, did anyone notice that during the recent test matches there wasn't a single pakistani holding Indian flag? Contrast this to the 2004 pak tour of India where over enthusiastic flag waving-kandle kissing crowd was waving Indian flags along with paki flags
I mean wtf! Should learn something from pakis.May the Fries be with you!
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Mayavi Morpheus - Level 2 Lord
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the tricolor was upside down in some places. sachin wrote some protest letters to the paki authorities and they apologized.Mayavi Morpheus wrote:What insult?Case in point - the insult to the tricolour in Peshawar
u mean there were indians waving paki flags the last time the pakis were here?Mayavi Morpheus wrote:...Should learn something from pakis.
wtf? i no longer care if my posts hurt yr feelings 
Love me or hate me, u cant ignore me
Love me or hate me, u cant ignore me
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CtrlAltDel - God!
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CtrlAltDel wrote:u mean there were indians waving paki flags the last time the pakis were here?
Yeah, indians waving paki flags along with indian flag. Some people stitched both flags togather and waved them.... some painted their faces with indian tricolor on one side and paki colors on another side
ass kissers.May the Fries be with you!
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Mayavi Morpheus - Level 2 Lord
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Owlish Acts ... "Ulluupanaa" ...
Owlish Acts ... "Ulluupanaa" ... Perhaps Instinctive Rather Than Deliberate ... 
* Inzy Out "Obstructing" ... Whether "Sporting" / "Unsporting" Appeal By Indians ... It Is "Ulluupanaa" By Inzy ... Perhaps Instinctive Rather Than Deliberate
* Sachin Out ... "Walking Out" ... When Really "Not Out" ... This Is Also"Ulluupanaa" ... Perhaps Instinctive Rather Than Deliberate
* Mohinder Out ... "Handled Ball" ... Critical / Fatal To The Team ... This Was Also"Ulluupanaa" ... Perhaps Instinctive Rather Than Deliberate
#### "Ulluu ... Ek Dhuundo ... Hazaar Milengey!" ... 
* Inzy Out "Obstructing" ... Whether "Sporting" / "Unsporting" Appeal By Indians ... It Is "Ulluupanaa" By Inzy ... Perhaps Instinctive Rather Than Deliberate
* Sachin Out ... "Walking Out" ... When Really "Not Out" ... This Is Also"Ulluupanaa" ... Perhaps Instinctive Rather Than Deliberate
* Mohinder Out ... "Handled Ball" ... Critical / Fatal To The Team ... This Was Also"Ulluupanaa" ... Perhaps Instinctive Rather Than Deliberate
#### "Ulluu ... Ek Dhuundo ... Hazaar Milengey!" ...
Build Heaven & Earth Links!
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HH - Level 1 Deity
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Re: Of course
Whiz wrote:Of course they were waving the Indian flags, I noticed one incident at the end of the 26th over.
I have watched two test matches and I only saw Indians waving Indian flags and not a paki was waving the tricolor. And why should they? They are not Indians. Its only us that wave every other flag with same passion of waving ours.
Anyway, I dont want to derail this thread, so back on topic.
May the Fries be with you!
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Mayavi Morpheus - Level 2 Lord
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Mayavi Morpheus wrote:CtrlAltDel wrote:u mean there were indians waving paki flags the last time the pakis were here?
Yeah, indians waving paki flags along with indian flag. Some people stitched both flags togather and waved them.... some painted their faces with indian tricolor on one side and paki colors on another side
Worth reading in the context of the remarks made by Mayavi Morpheus..
http://www.sulekha.com/travel/travelogu ... ?cid=20676
- parinda
- Registered User
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Pathan strikes in his first over. Salman Butt, caught Dhoni, bowled Pathan.
Kuch to bhi kare tho, Kya to bhi hota.
My Blog - http://ozdesi.blogspot.com
Coming to Australia? - http://studyinginaus.blogspot.com
My Blog - http://ozdesi.blogspot.com
Coming to Australia? - http://studyinginaus.blogspot.com
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gyanster - Registered User
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Kamran Akmal is bowled out after 14 by Pathan. 9th over.
Kuch to bhi kare tho, Kya to bhi hota.
My Blog - http://ozdesi.blogspot.com
Coming to Australia? - http://studyinginaus.blogspot.com
My Blog - http://ozdesi.blogspot.com
Coming to Australia? - http://studyinginaus.blogspot.com
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gyanster - Registered User
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parinda wrote:Worth reading in the context of the remarks made by Mayavi Morpheus..
http://www.sulekha.com/travel/travelogu ... ?cid=20676
your point being?
May the Fries be with you!
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Mayavi Morpheus - Level 2 Lord
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Mayavi Morpheus wrote:parinda wrote:Worth reading in the context of the remarks made by Mayavi Morpheus..
http://www.sulekha.com/travel/travelogu ... ?cid=20676
your point being?
point being you were wrong in guaging the response Indians got !!
- parinda
- Registered User
- Posts: 129
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parinda wrote:point being you were wrong in guaging the response Indians got !!
Then you totally missed my point. You dont have to wave pakistani flag to send messages of friendship. There are many ways to do it. for example, providing free food and lodging for pakistani cricket fans when they followed their team on their tour of India. Ofcourse, it is a different matter that inspite of all the ass kissing and flag waving we have done, 35 pakis illegally stayed back (did I hear ISI?) and three were caught last month for their involvement in IISC attack. Welcome to the real world.
May the Fries be with you!
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Mayavi Morpheus - Level 2 Lord
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Mayavi Morpheus wrote:parinda wrote:point being you were wrong in guaging the response Indians got !!
Then you totally missed my point. You dont have to wave pakistani flag to send messages of friendship. There are many ways to do it. for example, providing free food and lodging for pakistani cricket fans when they followed their team on their tour of India. Ofcourse, it is a different matter that inspite of all the ass kissing and flag waving we have done, 35 pakis illegally stayed back (did I hear ISI?) and three were caught last month for their involvement in IISC attack. Welcome to the real world.
Thats another topic alltogether , you are mixing up things here ...things you said might have happend thought I havent seen them come through any valid source yet other than your post at 1:38 am.
- parinda
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parinda wrote:Thats another topic alltogether , you are mixing up things here ...
ummm... its you who took it on a tangent by talking about paki hospitality. I didnt suggest that pakis are not good hosts.
things you said might have happend thought I havent seen them come through any valid source yet other than your post at 1:38 am.
How dare the IB havent informed you about this yet
May the Fries be with you!
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Mayavi Morpheus - Level 2 Lord
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Mayavi Morpheus wrote: How dare the IB havent informed you about this yet
I thought it always comes from the mouths of the RSS think tank..
- parinda ..back to nest.
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parinda ..back to nest. wrote:I thought it always comes from the mouths of the RSS think tank..
Shhh... its supposed to be a secret. not to be talked about in the open Sorry girl, you know too much... you have to be put down now.
May the Fries be with you!
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Mayavi Morpheus - Level 2 Lord
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