Kashmir.....Jannat ya Nark

[DQ]

Agar Jannat is Jahan me kahin hain to woh Yahi hain.



Why is a common Kashmiri being forced to live in Hell ?



What are the factors that have turned his Heaven into Hell.























AZAAD KASHMIR.....SHAHEED KASHMIRI

[CtrlAltDel]

Why is a common Kashmiri being forced to live in Hell ?

What are the factors that have turned his Heaven into Hell.

A1) Pakistan



A2) Jihad



A3) Jawaharlal Nehru



A4) Congress party

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Titrinote, Pakistan, November 7: Pakistani police fired tear gas and shots to disperse hundreds of villagers trying to approach a border crossing with India alongside Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir after it was opened to facilitate earthquake relief efforts.

What is wrong with these people? Why do they want to escape from the hell hole called land of puke... er pure, the azaaaaaaaaaad kashmir, and come to India to be oppressed by evil yindoo army? Dont they know that Kashmiri muslim wimmen are all being raped by Hindus... yet they want to cross over?? hmmmm...

[DQ]

Mai ban gayi aatank wadan. Meri zameen ban gayi nark.



Chahe ho woh mullah ka zulm, ya nehru chal, yah sardar ki cheek.....is me mere liye kya hain.

Hamare nasl da nasl zulm tahe mar rahe hain aur babu log coffee talk (bru) ki zariye hamari ummed tod rahe hain.....

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Mai ban gayi aatank wadan. Meri zameen ban gayi nark.

Chahe ho woh mullah ka zulm, ya nehru chal, yah sardar ki cheek.....is me mere liye kya hain.
Hamare nasl da nasl zulm tahe mar rahe hain aur babu log coffee talk (bru) ki zariye hamari ummed tod rahe hain.....

hahhaaa... one thing I dont understand, what makes muslims so special? Why do they need seperate islamic republics wherever they are a majority? Why cant they coexists peacefully with others?

[Mayavi Morpheus]

You know we have a western neighbour called paksitan, eastern neighbour called bangladesh and the only muslim majority state of india fighting for a seperate home land...

[DQ]

Why go all that far, shows your obsession again. Heard of Seprate Telangana Movement.



Brainwashed bal thackery puples would want you to beleive that this is is a Muslim Plot too.



We'll play a blame them game until China establishes a Separate Mao in Chin.



_

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Why go all that far, shows your obsession again. Heard of Seprate Telangana Movement.

Now this is news to me... seperate telangana country? a hindu one at that???/ hmmmm...

Brainwashed bal thackery puples would want you to beleive that this is is a Muslim Plot too.

Dunno abt bal thackrey's brain washing but have you heard about 'police action' in 1948?

We'll play a blame them game until China establishes a Separate Mao in Chin.
_

Dunno what you are trying to say here. Do you mean to say that we should fight china over 'aksai chin' or chinese occupied kashmir and make it part of 'Azaad kashmir'?

[CtrlAltDel]

Why go all that far, shows your obsession again. Heard of Seprate Telangana Movement.

Now this is news to me... seperate telangana country? a hindu one at that???/ hmmmm...

:lol: wrong example DQ...the demand is for a seperate state, not a country...
anyways, those demanding telangana cudnot even win recent local body elections there...thats says a lot abt the public support they enjoy currently...

Brainwashed bal thackery puples would want you to beleive that this is is a Muslim Plot too.

Dunno abt bal thackrey's brain washing but have you heard about 'police action' in 1948?

DQ wud call the Police Action the worst disaster faced by hydbad coz his beloved Visionary got kicked out...
he can take a measure of comfort from the fact that the Visionary's pet dogs and pigs are still around with a thriving communal political party...

We'll play a blame them game until China establishes a Separate Mao in Chin._

Dunno what you are trying to say here...

ya...even i cant understand DQ's meaning here...

[DQ]

Hmm really the ALL so Naive CAD.



Anyway Kashmir Jannat ya Nark is lost in your rants.



Why is this land and it people being abused by either security forces or Infiltrators. (As opposed to the generla feeling that Mayavi would want to spread Muslim Nation ROTMALOF)





And CAD you would want to Tickle History would you.



Lets accept a fact in history here.



A double standard by India regarding the decisions of independent rulers was apparent as the Nizam of Hyderabad, another princely state, had not acceded to India, but the kingdom was forcibly incorporated with a police action on the grounds that he did not represent the majority population which was true.



Thus, while Kashmir's rulers, without a vote by the Kashmiri people to decide their fate, were said to represent Kashmir, the Nizam, another native rule, was supposedly not representative of the people?



Talk about Double Standards.



http://mha.nic.in/accdoc.htm

[akhilis2cool]

BAAAH!!



Not another thread pleeeeeasee!

[CtrlAltDel]

Why is this land and it people being abused by either security forces or Infiltrators.

read my first reply to this thread for yr answers

And CAD you would want to Tickle History would you.

Lets accept a fact in history here.

A double standard by India regarding the decisions of independent rulers was apparent as the Nizam of Hyderabad, another princely state, had not acceded to India, but the kingdom was forcibly incorporated with a police action on the grounds that he did not represent the majority population which was true.

Thus, while Kashmir's rulers, without a vote by the Kashmiri people to decide their fate, were said to represent Kashmir, the Nizam, another native rule, was supposedly not representative of the people?

Talk about Double Standards.

so u wud prefer that india shud be riddled with islands of pakistan where ever muslim rulers were in power? hyderabad is right in the middle of india and it wud have been foolish for the indian govt to have a potential enemy right in the heart of the country. anyway even if hyderabad had gone to pakistan, do u think the citizens wud have prospered during the many wars with pakistan? one big reason for pakistan losing the '71 war was that they had to go around indian peninsula to reinforce their army in b'desh. hyderabad doent even have that luxury of a sea route. if the indian govt can anytime easily cut off hyderabad from pakistan, on all sides...what wud have hapnd then? the hyderabadies can thank their stars that the indian govt displayed balls and took over.



same with junagadh which also had a muslim ruler and hindu majority populace.



this is called political pragmatism....



abt J&K, it was not a part of the demarked area for pakistan, unlike west punjab, sindh, balochistan and east bengal. just b'coz muslims were in a majority doesnt mean it has to go to pakistan and neither was there a large scale public movement to join pakistan. most of the ppl were behind Sheik Abdullah who was pro-india.



the King of Kashmir preferred independence and wud have remained so, if the pakis hadnt sent in the tribal raiders. what other options did the weak king have in face of this attack?



right now, esp since last 2-3 decades there is a feeling in a large section of muslim kashmiris that they have to secede from india, but this has been the result of pakistani brainwashing and incompetency/corruption of the state govt and congress at Delhi.



imagine the consequences if plebiscite were to be held in JnK...every state wud throw up crackpots who wud demand similar plebiscite for themselves.



and also imagine the situation for other indian muslims if kashmir valley leaves india....



stop entertaining such foolish thots...

[Mayavi Morpheus]

hahhaa DQ is finally showing his pakiness...

[DQ]

Only a fooll would fall to this bait and you did.



Why does questioning history make someone a PAKI. Why is it that the minority has to prove its Indian ness.



What hurts Indian Muslims is that in spite of the community having repeatedly asserted its identity as Indians, it finds its patriotism being suspected. In fact, during the Afghan war and the jehad call after that not one Indian Muslim went to Afghanistan to fight there, though there were many from Pakistan and even Bangladesh.



Despite umpteen Muslim leaders, ulema and commoners having sacrificed for the nation, their allegiance is in question. Every time there is a communal divide, Indian Muslim have to get their certificate of loyalty renewed!



Why. And what is Indian as per the "so Called RVs follow the thread Indoctrination"

[CtrlAltDel]

since when did u start representing the indian muslim community?

in fact they shudnt associate with u...

[CtrlAltDel]

...and about the typical whining u started abt muslim loyalties being questioned, let me refresh yr memory that, the very same thing was being discussed in the Walled Off thread, the setting being Europe. u yrself derailed that thread by accussing each and every one of anti-muslim bias, when they tried to explain to u why europeans felt the way u said above...



u must have heard the saying that "a few bad apples spoil the whole basket"...



its all the impression created by a few stray elements. i myself have beaten up a few muslim guys who were celebrating pakistan's cricket victory against india in a match in london in the early 90s. let me also tell u that my muslim friends also joined me in beating up those as_sholes.



i have many close muslim friends and spent a large part of my intermediate college life roaming in old city with muslim guys. b'coz of this i know that the impression u talked about is unfair and wrong.



but what impression wud ppl without any association with muslims have? the answer to the debate in the "Walled Off" thread is also on the same lines...



according to some muslims in this DB, you are becoming a major source of embarassment for them. what do u plan to do abt it?

[DQ]

...and about the typical whining u started abt muslim loyalties being questioned, let me refresh yr memory that, the very same thing was being discussed in the Walled Off thread, the setting being Europe. u yrself derailed that thread by accussing each and every one of anti-muslim bias, when they tried to explain to u why europeans felt the way u said above...

The same question there and here, why do muslims have to prove their loyalties there and here.

u must have heard the saying that "a few bad apples spoil the whole basket"...

Correct. Keep this in mind when the Indoctrination thread proceeds. I would love to remind you there.

its all the impression created by a few stray elements. i myself have beaten up a few muslim guys who were celebrating pakistan's cricket victory against india in a match in london in the early 90s. let me also tell u that my muslim friends also joined me in beating up those as_sholes.

Thats the idiocincracy that alludes us, whats a cricket match got to do with loyalties and you showed your mettle by street fighting.

An example, Greece won the world cup here, and there were massive celebrations Australia Wide.

England won th Ashes and most of the Pubs were donning the Union Jack. Whats so offensive ? There was no bashing of the Greek or the English.
There were no petty street fights.

i have many close muslim friends and spent a large part of my intermediate college life roaming in old city with muslim guys. b'coz of this i know that the impression u talked about is unfair and wrong.

Good

but what impression wud ppl without any association with muslims have? the answer to the debate in the "Walled Off" thread is also on the same lines...

Donno whats yor point here?

according to some muslims in this DB, you are becoming a major source of embarassment for them. what do u plan to do abt it?

Well they have the right to form their own opinion.

Are you a moderator that they told you that?

[CtrlAltDel]

The same question there and here, why do muslims have to prove their loyalties there and here.

thats the point: they dont need to! no one asked them to do that. but if the bad apples i talked abt garner lots of publicity what do u think the rest wud face?

u must have heard the saying that "a few bad apples spoil the whole basket"...

Correct. Keep this in mind when the Indoctrination thread proceeds. I would love to remind you there.

remind when?

Thats the idiocincracy that alludes us, whats a cricket match got to do with loyalties and you showed your mettle by street fighting.

An example, Greece won the world cup here, and there were massive celebrations Australia Wide.

England won th Ashes and most of the Pubs were donning the Union Jack. Whats so offensive ? There was no bashing of the Greek or the English.
There were no petty street fights.

:lol: u are sooooo innocent!
the equation vis a vis India and Pakistan are different and u shud know that! in the past i have cheered for pakistan when they won the world cup or defeated countries like Australia. when playing India it is different.
no true indian can tolerate another indian distributing sweets and shouting "Pakistan Zindabad" when the pakis defeat india. its a sign of something else deeply wrong with those pigs.
and yes, i did show my mettle in street fighting: my gang left them bleeding and rolling on the road i am proud of it.

Donno whats yor point here?

either u are born naive or practiced it well...

Are you a moderator that they told you that?

haha! dont worry..no one wud complain to the mods about u...we need u for our daily entertainment

anyway, we do discuss u now and then...flattered? dont be...

[lonewolf]

according to some muslims in this DB, you are becoming a major source of embarassment for them

You have no idea!



Last night I was with a Palestinian friend (the same guy who once referred to DQ as that idiot. We read a few of DQ's posts and my friend was very annoyed that DQ used the issues of Palestine for his cheap personal arguments.



He wants DQ to take care of the issues in his own country (i.e. India) before standing up as a global champion for the cause of Muslims elsewhere. He thinks DQ is just another pseudo Islamist who uses isolated incidents to fight with people of other communities. My friend has seen many people like DQ, mostly from the Indian sub-continent, who think that they represent Islam, and he's a little amused by that. He says that its good when Muslims fight against oppression, but using another country's issues as a base for cheap arguments when you have issues in your own country is total bull. He thinks DQ should start using his head if he thinks of making posts which are inflammatory and could lead to Muslims being hated by others.



By the way, my friend is giving a talk at Capitol Hill today about fanaticism and moderation. He's a true Palestinian nationalist to the core, very pro-Palestinian, but never says bad things about Judaism, even though he hates Israel for what they have done to his country. And he's a future lawyer. I wish there were more people like him.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Why does questioning history make someone a PAKI. Why is it that the minority has to prove its Indian ness.

I will call anyone who toes pakistani line a PAKI irrespective of their faith. I care less what your religion is and as cad said, you are not the sole representative of the Indian muslim community.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

just b'coz muslims were in a majority doesnt mean it has to go to pakistan and neither was there a large scale public movement to join pakistan.

Very good point cad. The fact that India has more muslim population than pakistan proves that not all muslims from muslim majority areas of India wanted to join pakistan. Many of the moderate muslim leaders of the independance movement also stayed back in India and only the crooked ones moved to pakistan.

Thus, while Kashmir's rulers, without a vote by the Kashmiri people to decide their fate, were said to represent Kashmir, the Nizam, another native rule, was supposedly not representative of the people?

Talk about Double Standards.

This is what I call pakiness. The dude doesnt understand the simple point that no ruler before independance was a true representative of the people and all people were given fair option to choose their nationality. Hyderabad was annexed not only because of geographical reasons but also because only 10% of population was muslim and majority hindus wanted to be with India. This too was done only after scores of hindus were slaughtered by the razakaars (a fact conveniently forgotten by the Nizam fanboys).



Kashmir on the other hand was right between the two newly independent countries. The population was not overwhelmingly muslim unlike other states. It had Hindu majority regions in Jammu, muslim majority valley and also a large population of punjabis. The kind was a punjabi Hindu. Even during british times kashmir was fiercely independent.... even the britishers couldnt buy land in kashmir. This is the reason britishers built house boats on Dal lake which later became the main attraction of kashmir. Given this fiercely independent nature of the region, the king wanted a seperate country but joined India when the pakistan backed tribals invaded and half of his army, which was muslim, revolted against him. Even after kashmir aceded to India, and India was in a position to push into pakistan and capture the ocupied parts, we didnt. And it was India that took the issue to UN, from a position of strength, and made the plebiscite demand. Talk about double standards!! KNOW YOUR HISTORY.

[CtrlAltDel]

...The population was not overwhelmingly muslim unlike other states. It had Hindu majority regions in Jammu, muslim majority valley and also a large population of punjabis....

yeah...i forgot to mention that! only the Valley region was predominantly muslim, as also Gilgit and Baltistan (which are in PoK now). Jammu is Hindu domnated and Laddakh is Buddhist...



one realistic solution for the problem wud be to make the LOC the international border. our romantic ntions of taking over the PoK area is just a pipe dream that wont happen. its time we recognized reality and redraw our maps to reflect the same...its sad but very real

[DQ]

Hmm, Ridiculous right. Not interfere in other regions is what your friend proposes is it.



Is this what that has pissed him off.



Among the factors that can help eliminate extremism



1. A Democratic United Palestinian / Israeli state.(lol it can never happen,)

Now before you jump hubba bubba let me give you an insight of the palestinian / Israeli conflict.



Source - http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html



Also read THE COVENANT OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, before blabbing.



"Balfour Declaration" issued by the British Government in 1917, expressing support for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people (there are no records which show the percentage of Arab and Jewish poulations then)"

Why then was this expression of support. If true democracy had to spread why was this nation not given soverign right?.



anyway



During the years of the Palestine Mandate, from 1922 to 1947, large-scale Jewish immigration from abroad, mainly from Eastern Europe took place, the numbers swelling in the 1930s with the notorious Nazi persecution of Jewish populations. (So according to todays defination of certain communities being "Walled Off" the need then was fr this displaced people to integrate into country of Migration.)



What Happened?



After looking at various alternatives, the UN proposed the partitioning of Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized (Resolution 181 (II) of 1947). One of the two States envisaged in the partition plan proclaimed its independence as Israel and in the 1948 war expanded to occupy 77 per cent of the territory of Palestine. Israel also occupied the larger part of Jerusalem. Over half the indigenous Palestinian population fled or were expelled. Jordan and Egypt occupied the other parts of the territory assigned by the partition resolution to the Palestinian Arab State which did not come into being.



In the 1967 war, Israel occupied the remaining territory of Palestine, until then under Jordanian and Egyptian control (the West Bank and Gaza Strip). This included the remaining part of Jerusalem, which was subsequently annexed by Israel. The war brought about a second exodus of Palestinians, estimated at half a million. Security Council resolution 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967 called on Israel to withdraw from territories it had occupied in the 1967 conflict.



The UN and the Mandatory nations should undo this and help in establishing a single democratic nation.





2. Reduction of global meddling in middle eastern affairs.

For example stopping the support to the Wahabbi Royal kingdom. A school of thought (helped and created and financed by US) that has annhilated most of the Muslim World and now has spread and sits poised to become the sole cause of destruction of millions. through its nefracious activities, one of its sub wing being Al Qaeda.



3. A Democratic Saudi Arabia free of US intervention, this will give rise to formation of liberated Arab common man, whose freedom from staunch despots automatically will give rise to true democracy and a peaceful Globe.





Yes it would piss any Muslim off, it takes mettel to accept this fact. CAD, Lone and his Mosi(if they are sympathisers of wahabi form) friends. You will not like the above, but thats the fact. The creation of a Palestaniin conflict opened ground for resentment and the Wahabi sect which came into existance incidentally around the same time banked on it and helped in fanning its ideology around the globe.



1. If that conflict is resolved.

2. If Middle east is left alone to shape its own future.

3. If the Suad maonarchy is replaced the doors of extremism will close automatically.

[CtrlAltDel]

Yes it would piss any Muslim off, it takes mettel to accept this fact. CAD, Lone and his Mosi (if they are sympathisers of wahabi form) friends. You will not like the above, but thats the fact. The creation of a Palestaniin conflict opened ground for resentment and the Wahabi sect which came into existance incidentally around the same time banked on it and helped in fanning its ideology around the globe.

1. If that conflict is resolved.
2. If Middle east is left alone to shape its own future.
3. If the Suad maonarchy is replaced the doors of extremism will close automatically.

y shud yr proposition anger any normal muslim...? and as for palestinians supporting wahabism: FORGET IT!



btw, do u mean to say that wahabism came up after israel was created...? read up on some history first.



wahabism began in the 18th century as a puritanical sect folowing a strict n literal version of islam. it deosnt recognize any other versions like Shiaism or any other forms of worship followed in other Islamic sects. in 1744, the ruling Saud dynasty in Saudi arabia made Wahabism the official religion. in 1924, wahabis conquored mecca and madina and became powerful. and what gave the biggest impetus to its power n influence is the oil discovery in saudi arabia in 1938. so its an old pain, nothing to do with creation of israel.

[DQ]

..............................y shud yr proposition anger any normal muslim...? and as for palestinians supporting wahabism: FORGET IT!

btw, do u mean to say that wahabism came up after israel was created...? read up on some history first.

wahabism began in the 18th century as a puritanical sect folowing a strict n literal version of islam. it deosnt recognize any other versions like Shiaism or any other forms of worship followed in other Islamic sects. in 1744, the ruling Saud dynasty in Saudi arabia made Wahabism the official religion. in 1924, wahabis conquored mecca and madina and became powerful. and what gave the biggest impetus to its power n influence is the oil discovery in saudi arabia in 1938. so its an old pain, nothing to do with creation of israel.

Thats where again you err my friend.



- 1928 was the year of resurgence of the wahabbis in present day history.



Their first acts of oppression.



The destruction and desecration of the holy places i.e. the birth place of the Holy Prophet [s], the graves of Banu Hashim in Makkah and in Jannat al-Baqi (Madinah),



The destruction of the places of worship i.e. Masjid Hamza, Masjid Abu Rasheed, in addition to the tombs of Imams and Sahaba (Prophet's companions). [First time in Present History that Mosques were demolished. Pity that even today the Muslims continue not to raise a whimper against this Kingdom and would prefer fight for a Mosque In India]



Interference in the performance of Hajj rituals.



Forcing the Muslims to follow the Wahhabis innovations and to abandon their own ways according to the guidance of the Imams they follow.



Once they completed this, they funded extremism in Middle East always portraying Palestine and Israel conflict. They kept fuelling the Iran - Iraq war. They spread the Jihadis into South Asia.



Well read some history.

The massacre of sayyids in Taif, Madina, Ahsa, and Qatif. [First mass massacre of Muslims in present day, continued in phases after that, Iraq and Afghanistan]