New Delhi Bombings

[Jaan]

so sad, on the eve of a festival too...

i hope no one had family etc that was injured?

these stupid bombers!



Jaan

[dareversesting]

y wud someone bomb humanity....wht wud they get...wht do they want to prove



it was so good to see ppl comin forward and extending their arms for help like blood donations etc etc......

[Arfat]

It is very much painful to witness an incident of this magnitude at a time of festivity among us, Diwali and Eid to follow. Who ever is behind this did not like the Strong Secular Aura that is in the air. Shortly did we witness the earhquake in Northern India and Pakistan where everyone has offered a helping hand to the affected regardless of any creed. It was a bliss to see the shopping spree among us with communities converged. My prayers are for the deceased and their families. I curse those who are behind this incident and any incident that claims innocent lives. Moreover I request my fellow Indians not to land on premature conclusions and invoke another fire of hatred that will do no good to any of us except to those behind the incident.

[akhilis2cool]

Moreover I request my fellow Indians not to land on premature conclusions and invoke another fire of hatred that will do no good to any of us except to those behind the incident.

I second that.

[ycr007]

Latest Reports put the toll at 61 dead and over a hundred injured...



Damn those Terrorists!



A friend's family stays in paharganj area.....fortunately they were at home at that time ....

[jquader]

It is very much painful to witness an incident of this magnitude at a time of festivity among us, Diwali and Eid to follow. Who ever is behind this did not like the Strong Secular Aura that is in the air. Shortly did we witness the earhquake in Northern India and Pakistan where everyone has offered a helping hand to the affected regardless of any creed. It was a bliss to see the shopping spree among us with communities converged. My prayers are for the deceased and their families. I curse those who are behind this incident and any incident that claims innocent lives. Moreover I request my fellow Indians not to land on premature conclusions and invoke another fire of hatred that will do no good to any of us except to those behind the incident.

seriously, its very sad to know abt such an incident while evry1s in a festive mood... god will certainly not spare those who commit sins against humanity

[*]

As much As I disagree with what Bush says, looking at the kind of terrorist strikes these days, we can not help but agree with him.

This is slowly becoming a "war" between people who believe in other people's freedoms and people who do not.

This has nothing to with religion, coz you get those sort of people in all religions. we have hindu fanatics who think they are the best as we have muslim and christian. So this has become more of a fight between the mild mannered well behaved people and the ones who shout their opinions from the roof tops with no concern for others.

I think the time has come for us, everyone included to stand up and fight these people. We have to be more visible in opposing them, if they have a loaud voice , we have a louder voice. and since most of us are definetly better educated than these fanatics , we can do a better job at it. we shouldnt be afraid to do our bit,, standing in a demonstration, picketting or slogan shouting or whatever it needs to counter these people.

Our msg of friendship and tolerance should not get drowned in their noise.



Friends ,, its time to shed our inhibitions and get "LOUD".



Borrowing from a speech of Margaret Sanger, "life has taught me; we must put our convictions into action."



People, The House is on Fire and each of us should be the first one to raise an alarm. We can not wait for the next person to do our work, coz its the house we are living in too. its not enough for us to call the fire brigade but also start by putting our individual efforts togeather.



The forum has to have a real world presence. Things to tackle issues like "dowry deaths", harrasments and hate-mongering. not just talking about it on the net.

The ways you people can get active:

- Talk about these issues at your work places, get people active. we have been in an inertia soo long that this will be the most difficult part.

- Take the initiative and contact Television stations and print media.

- Students can form groups in their colleges which discuss these issues.

- essentially make a lot of noise that you get heard.

- become proactive, The time has come when we have to start doing something, otherwise tomorrow it can be Hyderabad instead of delhi and someoneelse in the place of Kavitha.



I hope all this writing helps in getting atleast one group started.



THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE AND I WILL BE THE PERSON TO RAISE THE ALARM, thats the pledge we need to take today and now.

[Jaan]

As much As I disagree with what Bush says, looking at the kind of terrorist strikes these days, we can not help but agree with him.
This is slowly becoming a "war" between people who believe in other people's freedoms and people who do not. This has nothing to with religion, coz you get those sort of people in all religions. we have hindu fanatics who think they are the best as we have muslim and christian. So this has become more of a fight between the mild mannered well behaved people and the ones who shout their opinions from the roof tops with no concern for others.

Is it? I am not trying to be sympathetic to those who are the perps but you realize that they were probably oppressed at one point, probably still are. Thus they resort to these crude bombings and heinous acts.

I think they are shouting from the rooftops because no one is hearing their concerns.

I think the time has come for us, everyone included to stand up and fight these people. We have to be more visible in opposing them, if they have a loaud voice , we have a louder voice. and since most of us are definetly better educated than these fanatics , we can do a better job at it. we shouldnt be afraid to do our bit,, standing in a demonstration, picketting or slogan shouting or whatever it needs to counter these people.
Our msg of friendship and tolerance should not get drowned in their noise.

Friends ,, its time to shed our inhibitions and get "LOUD".

Borrowing from a speech of Margaret Sanger, "life has taught me; we must put our convictions into action."

People, The House is on Fire and each of us should be the first one to raise an alarm. We can not wait for the next person to do our work, coz its the house we are living in too. its not enough for us to call the fire brigade but also start by putting our individual efforts togeather.

The forum has to have a real world presence. Things to tackle issues like "dowry deaths", harrasments and hate-mongering. not just talking about it on the net.
The ways you people can get active:
- Talk about these issues at your work places, get people active. we have been in an inertia soo long that this will be the most difficult part.
- Take the initiative and contact Television stations and print media.
- Students can form groups in their colleges which discuss these issues.
- essentially make a lot of noise that you get heard.
- become proactive, The time has come when we have to start doing something, otherwise tomorrow it can be Hyderabad instead of delhi and someoneelse in the place of Kavitha.

I hope all this writing helps in getting atleast one group started.

THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE AND I WILL BE THE PERSON TO RAISE THE ALARM, thats the pledge we need to take today and now.

I agree that the issues are very important to today’s society, but it is easier said that done. I hear ya, I hear ya. But I think raising OUR voices and making a racket will get noticed for the evening news but to accomplish, really accomplish any set of the above stated goals, we need commitment, we need believers. I think for the most part most people here will help but only up to a point. Everyone has different priorities, I mean how feasible is this? I would really like to myself proven wrong, I really would.



I also think that this is not the core of the issue here…the heart of the problem *speaking of India specifically* is that Indians are uneducated, and the educated ones tend to ignore everything around them. Any one that turns from bitter to violence is because the system lets you down. How can we change the system? I mean isn’t the system what we made it to be? With all the bad politics etc.



Jaan

[Thoughtprovoking HP]

As much As I disagree with what Bush says, looking at the kind of terrorist strikes these days, we can not help but agree with him.
This is slowly becoming a "war" between people who believe in other people's freedoms and people who do not. This has nothing to with religion, coz you get those sort of people in all religions. we have hindu fanatics who think they are the best as we have muslim and christian. So this has become more of a fight between the mild mannered well behaved people and the ones who shout their opinions from the roof tops with no concern for others.

Is it? I am not trying to be sympathetic to those who are the perps but you realize that they were probably oppressed at one point, probably still are. Thus they resort to these crude bombings and heinous acts.

I think they are shouting from the rooftops because no one is hearing their concerns.

Well...what you said has a point but then, aren't governments the world over trying to get into a dialogue with the perps. Its them who have chosen this path of violence. From the naxalites in AP, Bihar & Maharashtra etc. to the separatists in Kashmir and from the PLO (I do admit that they have curbed their violent acts a lot) to the Sien Fenn in Ireland, every militant group is being wooed for dialogue by the governments in question. But inspite of all this, the acts of violence still continue.

Moreover, even if we do agree to an extent with what you said, killing innocents is not the answer to their woes, is it?

I think the time has come for us, everyone included to stand up and fight these people. We have to be more visible in opposing them, if they have a loaud voice , we have a louder voice. and since most of us are definetly better educated than these fanatics , we can do a better job at it. we shouldnt be afraid to do our bit,, standing in a demonstration, picketting or slogan shouting or whatever it needs to counter these people.
Our msg of friendship and tolerance should not get drowned in their noise.

Friends ,, its time to shed our inhibitions and get "LOUD".

Borrowing from a speech of Margaret Sanger, "life has taught me; we must put our convictions into action."

People, The House is on Fire and each of us should be the first one to raise an alarm. We can not wait for the next person to do our work, coz its the house we are living in too. its not enough for us to call the fire brigade but also start by putting our individual efforts togeather.

The forum has to have a real world presence. Things to tackle issues like "dowry deaths", harrasments and hate-mongering. not just talking about it on the net.
The ways you people can get active:
- Talk about these issues at your work places, get people active. we have been in an inertia soo long that this will be the most difficult part.
- Take the initiative and contact Television stations and print media.
- Students can form groups in their colleges which discuss these issues.
- essentially make a lot of noise that you get heard.
- become proactive, The time has come when we have to start doing something, otherwise tomorrow it can be Hyderabad instead of delhi and someoneelse in the place of Kavitha.

I hope all this writing helps in getting atleast one group started.

THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE AND I WILL BE THE PERSON TO RAISE THE ALARM, thats the pledge we need to take today and now.

I agree that the issues are very important to today’s society, but it is easier said that done. I hear ya, I hear ya. But I think raising OUR voices and making a racket will get noticed for the evening news but to accomplish, really accomplish any set of the above stated goals, we need commitment, we need believers. I think for the most part most people here will help but only up to a point. Everyone has different priorities, I mean how feasible is this? I would really like to myself proven wrong, I really would.

It may not seem to be a very feasible alternative due to the logistics involved (the terror has spread worldwide), but then, who would have thought it feasible for a loin-cloth clad man to unite Indians from Kashmir to Kanyakumari and from Porbandar to Chittagong? He did make it possible. What we really lack today is a committed leadership sans personal agendas. We seriously miss a Gandhi, a Mandela, a Churchill and an Eisenhower in today's world.

I also think that this is not the core of the issue here…the heart of the problem *speaking of India specifically* is that Indians are uneducated, and the educated ones tend to ignore everything around them. Any one that turns from bitter to violence is because the system lets you down. How can we change the system? I mean isn’t the system what we made it to be? With all the bad politics etc.

Jaan

I've said it earlier too that blaming the political class in a democracy is running away from the problem rather than finding a solution to it. Last year's movie, "Yuva" showed amply how a committed society can change the way things happen.



We all talk of our own priorities - living a competitive life; bringing up children; coping with studies etc. but we tend to forget that we all owe a lot to our motherland and that it should atleast be in the top 5 of our priority list.

[Jaan]

Well...what you said has a point but then, aren't governments the world over trying to get into a dialogue with the perps. Its them who have chosen this path of violence. From the naxalites in AP, Bihar & Maharashtra etc. to the separatists in Kashmir and from the PLO (I do admit that they have curbed their violent acts a lot) to the Sien Fenn in Ireland, every militant group is being wooed for dialogue by the governments in question. But inspite of all this, the acts of violence still continue.

Moreover, even if we do agree to an extent with what you said, killing innocents is not the answer to their woes, is it?

Don't get me wrong! I am condoning this acts - innocents dying.

It may not seem to be a very feasible alternative due to the logistics involved (the terror has spread worldwide), but then, who would have thought it feasible for a loin-cloth clad man to unite Indians from Kashmir to Kanyakumari and from Porbandar to Chittagong? He did make it possible. What we really lack today is a committed leadership sans personal agendas. We seriously miss a Gandhi, a Mandela, a Churchill and an Eisenhower in today's world.

You know I do agree, I do think that we need a modern hero but beliveing that civilization has progressed since our past, why DON'T we have one right now? Looks like we are suppressing our own talented. I mean so many the potential, opportunities are scarce. How did it get to be like this? Man we are seeing blind.

I've said it earlier too that blaming the political class in a democracy is running away from the problem rather than finding a solution to it. Last year's movie, "Yuva" showed amply how a committed society can change the way things happen.

We all talk of our own priorities - living a competitive life; bringing up children; coping with studies etc. but we tend to forget that we all owe a lot to our motherland and that it should atleast be in the top 5 of our priority list.

I am not blaming the political class, just pointing it out that WE are the ones that made it this way, and apparently people who are comfortable this outweigh the ones who have a problem with it. I agree we should keep our country's progress in our top list, but woh hi tho, I think this is an enormous group think effort, thats why I was asking, we can say all the things we want, par, the bottom line is - how feasible is it - in the long run?



Jaan

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Is it? I am not trying to be sympathetic to those who are the perps but you realize that they were probably oppressed at one point, probably still are. Thus they resort to these crude bombings and heinous acts.

I think they are shouting from the rooftops because no one is hearing their concerns.

Jaan

I didnt expect this from you. You think that its ok to bomb and kill innocents if you have a grienvance?? You are just being a terrorrist sympathiser. Shame on you.

[Lucifer]

I think I have to takes sides with Jaan here. No, I do not believe you are justified in killing innocent people. But isn't innocence itself subjective?



How do you decide who is innocent? Who are you and I to say, for example, that George Bush is innocent while Saddam Hussain is not? I have been hearing this shit for a long time that the politics of Pakistan is anti-India but the people at the ground level want peace. That is a load of crap! A country gets the government it deserves. If we have a Laloo today it is because we voted him to power. Saying that the poor people who do not understand politics vote for him does not work in a democracy. We are the people who decide our rulers, and we are one.



Yes, we have the extremists. And may be their ways of getting justice done is violent. But why do we justify the same violence that Subhash Chandra Bose had used? Did the Indian National Army not kill innocent people? Why is he a hero?



My intent is not to inflame sentiments here. But to me violence is never right, no matter when it is exercised. Violence begets more violence and there is just no way we can get out of the circle once we get into it.



At the same time we must understand why some people take the extreme measures that they are forced to. I don't know how many people know but the Naxalite movement started from a place called Naxalbari in Bihar. The people who were a part of this movement were some of the most brilliant minds of this country - youth who did not get employment. Pushed into a corner of utter despair, they lashed out. Even today if you go into villages with a Naxal stronghold the people respect the naxalites because they protect the junta from the excesses of the landlords and the police. They do not fear the naxalites. A true naxalite would never harm a common man. They harm the police and the politicians, yes, but they are the corrupt ones. Like what we saw in the movie Tagore.



I gave an example of Naxalism because this is one movement I have closely studied. We need to investigate deep into these acts of violence and find out why people have been forced to take up arms. Till we do that, I am afraid these incidents will never end.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Innocents are those who are not convicted by court for a crime. Innocents are those who are no way related to your grievance.

Yes, we have the extremists. And may be their ways of getting justice done is violent. But why do we justify the same violence that Subhash Chandra Bose had used? Did the Indian National Army not kill innocent people? Why is he a hero?

Stupid comaprision. Subash Chandra Bose or his National Army did not kill any people. They declared war and they fought the British Army. Tehre is a difference between war and terrorrism. Go figure.

At the same time we must understand why some people take the extreme measures that they are forced to.

Forced to? Who the F.U.C.K is forcing them? Do you even know what crap you are spouting? What the F*** is the logic behind bombing holiday shoppers in delhi if you dont like Indian rule in Kashmir? What are they trying to achieve? If in retaliation to thebombing, India nukes pakistan or Indian Hindus massacre Indian muslims, would you still justify the retaliation and say, they are just being forced?
Yes, I understand what the kashmiris are fighting for and that is why even after killing 2000 Indian soldiers in last 15 years, murdering 30,000 kashmiri civilians and displacing half million kashmiri hindus, I still dont demand strict military rule nor do I preach hatred against Indian muslims. Thats as far as my sympathies can go. There is a reason why Indian govt. does not resettle Kashmir with rest of Indian population, there is a reason why India spends billions of dollars on kashmir - higher than what most other states get, and there is a reason why I, an Indian, cannot own land in kashmir. Yet, I dont protest. Why? Because I understand the grievances of kashmiris. When can I expect them to understand my grievances?
Also can you explain what compulsions a pakistani fundamentalist has to spread terror in India. Is there something that i am missing?
Lemme see you preach the same thing when your family is a victim.

Pushed into a corner of utter despair, they lashed out. Even today if you go into villages with a Naxal stronghold the people respect the naxalites because they protect the junta from the excesses of the landlords and the police

Even during the height of Naxal movement they didnt bomb crowded markets with the intention of killing people. Hate to educate you but naxalism lost its popularity the day when they started extroting money for protection. Today they are only respected out of fear and not for their idealogy.

[spamtaneous]

@ mayavi



theres something called... switch on the button here and the bulb glows else where..... that may be their (bombers) idea !



ps: i am not supporting the bombings

[Mayavi Morpheus]

@ mayavi

theres something called... switch on the button here and the bulb glows else where..... that may be their (bombers) idea !

Remeber 1993 Bombay, 2001 Gujarat? Its the same switch-bulb logic. Do you really believe in it?

[spamtaneous]

@ mayavi

theres something called... switch on the button here and the bulb glows else where..... that may be their (bombers) idea !

Remeber 1993 Bombay, 2001 Gujarat? Its the same switch-bulb logic. Do you really believe in it?

the idea was to generate chaos and unrest ...so that they get noticed ....same stuff happens everywhere....madrid, london bombings ... they cannot fight face to face ...nor they come to dialogue... since they never believed in the system in the first place... its just a vicious circle with no begining and no end



not that i believe or support it... but this is what i think

[Mayavi Morpheus]

the idea was to generate chaos and unrest ...so that they get noticed ....same stuff happens everywhere....madrid, london bombings ... they cannot fight face to face ...nor they come to dialogue... since they never believed in the system in the first place... its just a vicious circle with no begining and no end

not that i believe or support it... but this is what i think

Do you realize that it is not the 'aam' kashmiri that is doing this? It is the proxy war being waged by pakistan through LeT pigs. It is not being done because they feel cornered and have no options left. Whoever is perpetrating these dastardly acts clearly knows the consequences.

[Jaan]

So, lets get a couple of things straight here:



I am not cold hearted, I DO CONDEMN the acts.

The reason I said CONDONE was well, I believe that there is TWO sides to every story. And, I believe that we don't know much about the other side of the coin. But that is just my one opinion and you are entitled to your own.



Jaan

[akhilis2cool]

The reason I said CONDONE was well, I believe that there is TWO sides to every story. And, I believe that we don't know much about the other side of the coin.

even if we knew the other side, whts the point? We know for a fact that these acts (new delhi bombings) have been committed by terrorists sponsored by pak. Now tell me is there ne data avlbl. to prove that these guys from across the border were oppresed at any given time by Indians? Pakistan wants to rule kashmir and thats the only reason behind this.

[enigma]

As much As I disagree with what Bush says, looking at the kind of terrorist strikes these days, we can not help but agree with him.
This is slowly becoming a "war" between people who believe in other people's freedoms and people who do not.
This has nothing to with religion, coz you get those sort of people in all religions. we have hindu fanatics who think they are the best as we have muslim and christian. So this has become more of a fight between the mild mannered well behaved people and the ones who shout their opinions from the roof tops with no concern for others.
I think the time has come for us, everyone included to stand up and fight these people. We have to be more visible in opposing them, if they have a loaud voice , we have a louder voice. and since most of us are definetly better educated than these fanatics , we can do a better job at it. we shouldnt be afraid to do our bit,, standing in a demonstration, picketting or slogan shouting or whatever it needs to counter these people.
Our msg of friendship and tolerance should not get drowned in their noise.

Friends ,, its time to shed our inhibitions and get "LOUD".

Borrowing from a speech of Margaret Sanger, "life has taught me; we must put our convictions into action."

People, The House is on Fire and each of us should be the first one to raise an alarm. We can not wait for the next person to do our work, coz its the house we are living in too. its not enough for us to call the fire brigade but also start by putting our individual efforts togeather.

The forum has to have a real world presence. Things to tackle issues like "dowry deaths", harrasments and hate-mongering. not just talking about it on the net.
The ways you people can get active:
- Talk about these issues at your work places, get people active. we have been in an inertia soo long that this will be the most difficult part.
- Take the initiative and contact Television stations and print media.
- Students can form groups in their colleges which discuss these issues.
- essentially make a lot of noise that you get heard.
- become proactive, The time has come when we have to start doing something, otherwise tomorrow it can be Hyderabad instead of delhi and someoneelse in the place of Kavitha.

I hope all this writing helps in getting atleast one group started.

THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE AND I WILL BE THE PERSON TO RAISE THE ALARM, thats the pledge we need to take today and now.

All this looks good on print,, have you made a beginning? Raising an alarm is not enough, what u have stated is what we are aware of, people have to change. Today it lingers on in the mind..tommorrow is another day, so lets accept the fact.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

What cross-border terrorism? Let's celebrate survival

By Swapan Dasgupta

It is comforting to pretend it's going to be another joyous Diwali. Since the bombs exploded last Saturday, killing 65 ordinary citizens- we still don't know the final count- and leaving another 210 seriously injured, the Capital has been subjected to some dreary sermons.

The custodians of national conscience have coupled their generous overuse of hoary adjectives like "heinous" and "dastardly" to appeal for calm, to praise our collective restraint and to assure us that India will not buckle under terrorism. There is no need, the UPA Chairperson has gratuitously informed us, to be either unduly perturbed or point an accusing finger at anyone. Terrorism, after all, is a "global phenomenon".

The mood of forgiveness resonates throughout Lutyens' Delhi. Even as the Police speak of the terrorists' links across the Radcliffe Line, a decision is taken to declare Pakistan a non-issue. Nothing, absolutely nothing, must be done to derail the "peace process".

The Defence Minister may have spoken earlier about the persisting "infrastructure of terror" and the Army may have aired its concern about the onrush of infiltration across the Line of Control in the aftermath of the earthquake, but these are apparent trivialities. In a spirit of devastated magnanimity, India will not be seen to be shirking from its obligation to make Pervez Musharraf's bluster about a disappearing LoC a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The Government is in denial. It doesn't want to accept that what happened in Delhi on Saturday was no freak show. The terrorists wilfully targeted the crowded pre-Diwali bazaars as a gesture of defiance, to show that they are still in business.

They had attempted a similar dhamaka in Ayodhya last August, which narrowly failed. On both occasions, the response of the Government has been mealy-mouthed, as if the nation is embarrassed rather than outraged. It is as if a robust response to terrorism violates secular camaraderie!

Perhaps it would have been reassuring if the evidence suggested that a serial explosion of LPG cylinders rather than timer bombs were responsible for the killing. The reality, unfortunately, is different. India is once again under attack from an old enemy and the Government hopes the problem will just go away.

It is certainly time to be phlegmatic but it is also a time to be angry. For the narrowest of political compulsions, the Government has conveyed the impression that terrorism is a trivial act of deviancy and that the killers must be indulged and treated with kid gloves.

The "soft state" is not merely a helpless Prime Minister, an inept Home Minister and a compromised External Affairs Minister. It is a mindset of squeamish appeasement guaranteed to ensure the victims of last Saturday's massacre won't be the last.

Diwali commemorates Lord Ram's triumphant return to Ayodhya. This year we will be observing a collective delusion that evil is just an abstraction, maya. We are celebrating survival by pretending there is no war.

Link





We are a nation of cowards. Time and again the enemy kicks us in the nuts and still we extend our hand in peace only to get kicked again. The international community will advice us to excercise restraint and the countless kandle kissers will demand that we dont abandon the peace talks. Why not? None of their kin ever get killed in these acts and the lives of rest of indians dont matter to them. After all we are a billion!

How long are we going to tolerate this? What is the price we are willing to pay to achieve peace?

Have we become so insensitive to terrorrism that 100's of people get killed every year and we still dont demand action?

[pingu]

what alternative would you propose MM? in concrete terms ...

[*]

First, its good to know that people do actually discuss here ,atleast once in a while apart from the spamming.



coming back to the discussion,

I see that there is only one person who actually got the drift of what i was trying to say.

Its the commitment to duty that we all should perform and act , not just think. and like some of you were saying ,, if we waited for the next person to start, then its a vicious cycle of waiting till the next gandhi arrives.

All this is about the "power of one". never underestimate it. what i was trying to do was light that spark in atleast one person so that it starts the whole cycle. I dont want people saying ,, we know it needs to be done ,,but ,,,,,,,,,? atleast change the way we talk,, try and be more forcible. talk committed. instead of trying to find reasons for not.

Everybody know what the reality is ,,but for once indulge yourself in wishful thinking and actually start talking it, maybe it will inspire someone to be a "gandhi" or a "rosa parks". All it needs is one person. You need not be that one ,, but do not talk the way an other person loses hope.

Lets live, breath and talk about these issues passionately,, maybe someone with the guts will hear us and go on.



Be a "Lok manya bal gangadhar tilak" , well he dint manage to get as much done as Gandhi, but he was one of the reasons Gandhi got started. I am trying to get people atleast to be a "Tilak" so that you might inspire a "Gandhi".



p.s : well do not know if its the discussion or what ,, but Jaan changed her siggy to a serious one from the bart-farts.

[*]

[quote="Mayavi Morpheus]



We are a nation of cowards. Time and again the enemy kicks us in the nuts and still we extend our hand in peace only to get kicked again. The international community will advice us to excercise restraint and the countless kandle kissers will demand that we dont abandon the peace talks. Why not? None of their kin ever get killed in these acts and the lives of rest of indians dont matter to them. After all we are a billion!

How long are we going to tolerate this? What is the price we are willing to pay to achieve peace?

Have we become so insensitive to terrorrism that 100's of people get killed every year and we still dont demand action?[/quote]



It is all about body count MM? and how we play our cards. well we know that our cards are bad ,, so how do we play them best ?



well here are some numbers , not very sure but approximations...



Total number of civilians killed in kashmir ( 1990 - 2005) = 15611



number of troops killed in the years of insurgency in kashmir, i couldnt find numbers but that would not be greater than the civilian figure i think.



and compare this to the small scale war we had in kargil,, 500 troops dead in such a short time.



so looking at the numbers , we will have lesser people killed over the longer period with the present status quo ,,than if we go for an all out war.



that is what is keeping us back,,, apart from the other reasons too.

[akhilis2cool]

U sound very familiar '*'

why dont u come out of hiding first before asking ppl. to standup and b loud?