Gentoo Debian and other distros

[lonewolf]

Ok, I'm continuing the thread about Gentoo and other distros here.

[lonewolf]

i do have a different opinion about this
firstly i think most people are scared of installing Gentoo because they are afraid that after spending 20 hrs on it, it might show some error and stop
most people misconstrue the concept behind the distro
it is not really a "geeks only" distro
infact i believe that is the easist distro to manage once installed
all u need to know is how to emerge

That was a nice one fl. Darn, the chrooting during install never struck me. I just formatted the old hard disk and tried a Stage 1 install the first time .



You have any idea how long a Stage 3 install would take? I can probably try it on this notebook sometime.

[fl]

i do have a different opinion about this
firstly i think most people are scared of installing Gentoo because they are afraid that after spending 20 hrs on it, it might show some error and stop
most people misconstrue the concept behind the distro
it is not really a "geeks only" distro
infact i believe that is the easist distro to manage once installed
all u need to know is how to emerge

That was a nice one fl. Darn, the chrooting during install never struck me. I just formatted the old hard disk and tried a Stage 1 install the first time .

You have any idea how long a Stage 3 install would take? I can probably try it on this notebook sometime.

actually i had a similar discussion back in the insti with some of my frns who are hardcore windoze fans

and the point they put forward was very valid

that windows takes 30 mins and gentoo 2days

so had to find a way to make them try this out

so then i thot of this

btw one more interesting funda

u can install gentoo running windows too

just use vmware to run it

u can actually run gentoo on a windows desktop just like fifa

[lonewolf]

actually i had a similar discussion back in the insti with some of my frns who are hardcore windoze fans
and the point they put forward was very valid
that windows takes 30 mins and gentoo 2days
so had to find a way to make them try this out
so then i thot of this
btw one more interesting funda
u can install gentoo running windows too
just use vmware to run it
u can actually run gentoo on a windows desktop just like fifa

One of my closest friends installed Linux (I think Debian) on his laptop. He was watching a movie on Windows at the same time he installed Linux, all with VMWARE.



There's a lot of difference between Windows and Linux. Installing is not all; you need regular periodic updates, efficiency and lots of other things to keep the machine running fine. Windows for development is bollocks! I don't understand why some people run Perl and PHP scripts on Windows!

[fl]

actually i had a similar discussion back in the insti with some of my frns who are hardcore windoze fans
and the point they put forward was very valid
that windows takes 30 mins and gentoo 2days
so had to find a way to make them try this out
so then i thot of this
btw one more interesting funda
u can install gentoo running windows too
just use vmware to run it
u can actually run gentoo on a windows desktop just like fifa

One of my closest friends installed Linux (I think Debian) on his laptop. He was watching a movie on Windows at the same time he installed Linux, all with VMWARE.

There's a lot of difference between Windows and Linux. Installing is not all; you need regular periodic updates, efficiency and lots of other things to keep the machine running fine. Windows for development is bollocks! I don't understand why some people run Perl and PHP scripts on Windows!

i have seen ppl running mysql and http daemons on windows

even phpbb

amazing ppl

[lonewolf]

[fl]

[lonewolf]

infact its the guy who stays next doors
we always have this thing goin btwn us
i run somethin on lin
he does it on win
and when he makes somethin work on win
i try to run the same on lin
finally i made him switch to linux
now he is trying to prove how fedora is better than gentoo

Haha thats funny!!! And what the heck? Fedora can't hold a candle to Gentoo or Debian! Fedora/Redhat is such a bloated distro and you don't even know what you're doing when you're in Fedora.



Just give him some more time He'll gradually start in praise of Gentoo or Debian

[Lucifer]

Even though this appears to be a lonewolf Vs. fl thread, I thought I would butt in anyway.



I have never used Gentoo, or Debian. Have used Red Hat, Mandrake, Fedora, and SuSe.



SuSE kind of sucks. I think it is too big. But the Novell Linux Desktop has potential, even though I think this version is too simple for the geeks and too complex for people wishing to switch from windows.



Fedora is okay. No great shakes. But it does its job. Red Hat I am quite fond of really. And I absolutely adore Mandrake. I think it is among the best free distros out there. What's more, it is designed to handle packets made for Red Hat, which means even Yahoo Messenger works on it like an absolute charm.



Not to mention, PHP, MySQl, Perl, and Apache all function beautifully on Mandrake - even on a 128 MB RAM 500 MHz processor machine running in graphics mode. Of course, if you choose to just boot the machine in text mode, and do not even log into it then you can bloody well host about 100 sites on that very machine.

[lonewolf]

Even though this appears to be a lonewolf Vs. fl thread, I thought I would butt in anyway.

This is not a thread between me and fl. You are welcome This is open to everybody who has anything to say about Linux distributions

Not to mention, PHP, MySQl, Perl, and Apache all function beautifully on Mandrake - even on a 128 MB RAM 500 MHz processor machine running in graphics mode. Of course, if you choose to just boot the machine in text mode, and do not even log into it then you can bloody well host about 100 sites on that very machine.

I used to have Mandrake before I switched to Debian. Mandrake is good for beginners or the general desktop user.



The problem is when you want to install software that has a lot of depenencies, for example I wanted to install Bluetooth and interface my cellphone with my desktop for various tasks, and it was a pain in the butt to download 20 or more rpms and install them. Updating/upgrading your system is another task too.



With Debian's apt or Gentoo's emerge, its usually just a single line that automatically downloads and does the dirty work for you Also, these two flavours are among the least bloated of Linux distros.

[lonewolf]

This is open to anybody who has anything to say about Linux distributions

Typo! The everybody should have been anybody.

[lonewolf]

:D! Thank you soo much! I for one will learn much from you peoples' discussion

No probs And, did you install GAIM yet?

Me Seconds Sharjeel's Views......

And If You Ppl Could Throw some Light on Mandrake.Ubuntu & Red Hat as well,it would be Great.

I would recommend Ubuntu for a beginner right now. UbuntuLinux is a derivative of Debian, meaning you can use Debian-specific commands on Ubuntu, apart from the regular Unix commands.



If you guys want CDs, I can arrange for 10 or 15 CD sets to be mailed to you in Hyderabad. Its all free! You can order for it yourself from the website, but I can exedite the mailing if I do the order. Anybody interested? Each CD set has two CDs - one is a LiveCD which runs off the CD without installing anything on the hard disk and the second is an install CD which installs Ubuntu on your hard disk (and creates a separate Linux partition).

[ycr007]

:D! Thank you soo much! I for one will learn much from you peoples' discussion

No probs And, did you install GAIM yet?

Me Seconds Sharjeel's Views......

And If You Ppl Could Throw some Light on Mandrake.Ubuntu & Red Hat as well,it would be Great.

I would recommend Ubuntu for a beginner right now. UbuntuLinux is a derivative of Debian, meaning you can use Debian-specific commands on Ubuntu, apart from the regular Unix commands.

If you guys want CDs, I can arrange for 10 or 15 CD sets to be mailed to you in Hyderabad. Its all free! You can order for it yourself from the website, but I can exedite the mailing if I do the order. Anybody interested? Each CD set has two CDs - one is a LiveCD which runs off the CD without installing anything on the hard disk and the second is an install CD which installs Ubuntu on your hard disk (and creates a separate Linux partition).

Sure Lone,Once I Get Down my PC and Upgrade to a Better & Bigger HDD,I'll Surely Try out the Various Flavours.

Till Then,I Won't Bother You.

[fl]

ok this one is a really long one

hope someone reads this






Why Gentoo is better than others:



Everything is compiled from source:


Optimized for your hardware

it is specific to your computer as u mention ur architecture in the cflags



Packages are built from the original sources



Fast package updates when new version appear

u can even emerge the unstable versions using the ~x86 option



Can be turned into binary packages during or after package installation

u can use quickpkg to make binary packages

so that if the architecture of two systems is same u can use the binary which is as good as compiled on the same system




You're in control:


Minimal installation

u install only what u want

nothing more nothing less



No services are activated by default

like u see in fedora or suse



No configuration is done automatically



Default configurations are available but have to be performed explicitly

if u think its getting too geeky

Your configurations are protected and will never be overwritten


Powerful package manager:


Packages are first installed in a staging directory, and are only then merged into your live system

this enables u to run the program while it is upgrading



Performs installations in a protecting sandbox



Safe library updates on a running system



Resolves dependencies automatically



Keeps you informed about new updates

emerge -p will pretend to install and show u the current status and the updates available



Updates your repository from the internet

emerge webrsync will update ur portage from an rsync mirror



Allows you to safely remove outdated packages

very easu to unmerge packages

will remove all the useless dependancy packages as well



Can create and use binary packages



Low-level (developer) tool : ebuild

u can write your own ebuild files for packages not in the portage



High-level (user) tool : emerge



System-wide configuration of your usage preferences(use-flags)

the use flags in /etc/make.conf are universal and apply to all packages



Virtual packages


Easy package format:



Closely mimics the bash commands you'd execute to install manually



Clearly separated installation phases : unpack,compile, install, merge



Pre and post actions for each installation phase



Additional configuration is done through the definition of variables : description, homepage, download url, dependencies, binary compatibility






Centralized internet repository of packages:





Immediate access to new versions

r-sync mirrors get updated every 30 mins



Intuitive synchronization of your local package tree

a simple cron job can do this



Direct access by developers to the same repository




Intelligent and dependency-based init scripts:



Not numbered

this is a big diff btwn gentoo and other distros

the init levels have no numbers as such



Scripts use or need each-other



Stopping a service auto-stops all services that need it

if you do a /etc/init.d/net.eth0

it will also stop all the services that need net like ftpd, httpd, etc,



Services can be paused (stop function in other distributions)



Services can't be started or stopped multiple times



Easy tool to manage services





Gentoo rocks!!!

[/b]

[fl]

:D! Thank you soo much! I for one will learn much from you peoples' discussion

No probs And, did you install GAIM yet?

Me Seconds Sharjeel's Views......

And If You Ppl Could Throw some Light on Mandrake.Ubuntu & Red Hat as well,it would be Great.

I would recommend Ubuntu for a beginner right now. UbuntuLinux is a derivative of Debian, meaning you can use Debian-specific commands on Ubuntu, apart from the regular Unix commands.

If you guys want CDs, I can arrange for 10 or 15 CD sets to be mailed to you in Hyderabad. Its all free! You can order for it yourself from the website, but I can exedite the mailing if I do the order. Anybody interested? Each CD set has two CDs - one is a LiveCD which runs off the CD without installing anything on the hard disk and the second is an install CD which installs Ubuntu on your hard disk (and creates a separate Linux partition).

i would like to try this out

how do i get these ??

[lonewolf]

i would like to try this out
how do i get these ??

The link for ordering the CD set is at:

http://shipit.ubuntulinux.org/



You can order for it yourself since you are in Bombay; it will take about 6 weeks for the CDs to reach you. Everything is *FREE*.

[lonewolf]

Sure Lone,Once I Get Down my PC and Upgrade to a Better & Bigger HDD,I'll Surely Try out the Various Flavours.
Till Then,I Won't Bother You.

As I said, the CD set has a LiveCD and an Install CD.



The Install CD lets you install UbuntuLinux on the hard disk.



With the LiveCD, all you do is you boot off the CD and it automatically boots into UbuntuLinux without installing anything on the hard disk. You don't need to have even a hard disk to run the LiveCD You can run it off *ANY* computer, even your college computer; just set it to boot from the CD and you'll get to run Linux on the computer.. everything runs off the RAM.



I'll order for 10 CD sets rightaway. You can keep one set and dstribute the others to those who are *genuinely interested*. Can you give an address where you want the CDs to be sent to? You can send me a private message.

[lonewolf]

ok this one is a really long one
hope someone reads this

Thanks for the detailed info fl. It was quite helpful.