ethical¿? cloning and embryonic stem cells

[lizard king]

is it a religious or an ethical sin to culture an make and culture an embryo to treat a dying sibling? or is just the fear that it will actually bleach the concept that associates god with creativity.



was thinking about origin of species, when my head led me to this new contraversy that is hindering the new world from treating those unlucky ones, who deserve a better life, or a life? in some cases

[Jaszalcatraz]

Cloning to create a life that wouldnt have naturally been there is playing God and wrong.

But stem cell research is definetly the next step in medicine and should be allowed.

But its a fine line that seperates the two and frequently changing guidelines (oxymoron) should be put in place.

[CtrlAltDel]

i concur with Jasz...but my reasons for opposing cloning is different:



rampant cloning wud result in another population explosion when life expectancy is already rising due to better health care. and what if cloning 'revives' people who are better off dead....like Hitler, Osama, Saddam, Dubya...

[Lucifer]

I oppose cloning, too, though for reasons different from CAD's. And they are not going to sound very pleasant to many ears.



Every species goes through natural selection, where only the fittest survives. The weak fall prey to the strong. This preserves balance in nature. Keeps the numbers in check.



Man has alread gone too far with technology. Life expectancy has increased to an extent which I am sure we were never meant to achieve. The result? Three-fourths of the world lives in deplorable conditions. Habitats of other species are being destroyed to make room for man.



Where are we going to put a stop to it? This just cannot go on all in the name of development.

[Jaszalcatraz]

What about the "survival of the fittest" funda being applied on a more macro scale??



Instead of the fittest humans, its about the fittest species. And to ensure that we are the fittest species, we have to do anything in our way to make sure that deaths from failing body functions should be minimized.

Moving on.......consider the species that we are shedding tears for. If we can clone successfully, we can bring the species back with ease. And even create the best of the species - flawless, pure blood and the way God wanted it to be....something like an Asimov story I read and also the movie Gattaca.

[lizard king]

i was talking more in terms of therapeutic cloning, to produce embryonic stem cells, and not somatic cell cloning, as in the case of Dolly, to make an identical clone, or to make a clone army.





when it comes to human cloning for purposes other than therapeutic use, i think the world is not ready for it yet, psychologically.



basically, for embryonic stem cell research, an unfertilised egg is taken from the mother and enucleated, and a nucleus from another tissue is is planted into it, and grown in a culture dish to extract the stem cells, in a petridish. this has nothing to do with some one carrying it and killing the embryo at a later stage, in the name of abortion or what ever. in other cases, a normal egg is made to fertilise with a normal sperm in aftificial conditions , and thye embryo, is grown till it reaches a certain cellular level and used for stem cell research. do u guys think this is really immoral?

for all the advantages it has to find sure for so many diseases, which till date have been incurable.



there is a huge debate over this in most parts of the world, along with the debate on the banning of abortion.



just wanted to know what this diverse group, comign from various religious and cultural backgrounds think about this issue.

[DQ]

i was talking more in terms of therapeutic cloning, to produce embryonic stem cells, and not somatic cell cloning, as in the case of Dolly, to make an identical clone, or to make a clone army.


when it comes to human cloning for purposes other than therapeutic use, i think the world is not ready for it yet, psychologically.

basically, for embryonic stem cell research, an unfertilised egg is taken from the mother and enucleated, and a nucleus from another tissue is is planted into it, and grown in a culture dish to extract the stem cells, in a petridish. this has nothing to do with some one carrying it and killing the embryo at a later stage, in the name of abortion or what ever. in other cases, a normal egg is made to fertilise with a normal sperm in aftificial conditions , and thye embryo, is grown till it reaches a certain cellular level and used for stem cell research. do u guys think this is really immoral?
for all the advantages it has to find sure for so many diseases, which till date have been incurable.

there is a huge debate over this in most parts of the world, along with the debate on the banning of abortion.

just wanted to know what this diverse group, comign from various religious and cultural backgrounds think about this issue.

As you seem to have some knowledge, how would you explain to a layman:

What stem cell treatment is ?

What do you mean by pluripotent cell?

How and where are these cells used?



As far as relegious / Cultural / Ethical standards are concrened ask a dying man that a replcement cell will save his life, but is not ethical.



His answer should sum up most of the thread.

[lizard king]

i was talking more in terms of therapeutic cloning, to produce embryonic stem cells, and not somatic cell cloning, as in the case of Dolly, to make an identical clone, or to make a clone army.


when it comes to human cloning for purposes other than therapeutic use, i think the world is not ready for it yet, psychologically.

basically, for embryonic stem cell research, an unfertilised egg is taken from the mother and enucleated, and a nucleus from another tissue is is planted into it, and grown in a culture dish to extract the stem cells, in a petridish. this has nothing to do with some one carrying it and killing the embryo at a later stage, in the name of abortion or what ever. in other cases, a normal egg is made to fertilise with a normal sperm in aftificial conditions , and thye embryo, is grown till it reaches a certain cellular level and used for stem cell research. do u guys think this is really immoral?
for all the advantages it has to find sure for so many diseases, which till date have been incurable.

there is a huge debate over this in most parts of the world, along with the debate on the banning of abortion.

just wanted to know what this diverse group, comign from various religious and cultural backgrounds think about this issue.

As you seem to have some knowledge, how would you explain to a layman:
What stem cell treatment is ?
What do you mean by pluripotent cell?
How and where are these cells used?

As far as relegious / Cultural / Ethical standards are concrened ask a dying man that a replcement cell will save his life, but is not ethical.

His answer should sum up most of the thread.

wel, to start off with, embryonic stem cell is a cell which is capable of dividing and prolifirating into any type of a cell... like the kidney cells, brain cells or muscle cells or pancreatic cells. these cells are found in developing embryos. coming to stem cell treatment, say some one has a spinal cord injury, neurons take a long time to generate and form the connections in the adults, which moight even go for years, and normally does nt happen and would remain paraplegic for the rest of his life. but if the spinal cord injured person is transplanted with stem cells, they will form new connections and there is a great chance that that he could be cured.

or if some one is born with a rare genetic defect in which, a certain kind of essential constituent of the body cannot be made by the individual, he could be treated with stem cells of a closest match, which ofcourse has to be an embryo from his parents, for a little child to live and see this world.

but the debate that arises here is as to is it really a moral thing to kill an embryo, to help the other person survive. for, in some religions, it is a sin to kill the embryo, after conception, where as for some religions, as long as a person is not born, he is not considered a living thing.



so i do u guys think it is justified, that what they call "killing some one/something" to save someone, splly when that somethnig is a living?, future human.

[CtrlAltDel]

basically, for embryonic stem cell research, an unfertilised egg is taken from the mother and enucleated, and a nucleus from another tissue is is planted into it, and grown in a culture dish to extract the stem cells, in a petridish. this has nothing to do with some one carrying it and killing the embryo at a later stage, in the name of abortion or what ever. in other cases, a normal egg is made to fertilise with a normal sperm in aftificial conditions , and thye embryo, is grown till it reaches a certain cellular level and used for stem cell research. do u guys think this is really immoral?
for all the advantages it has to find sure for so many diseases, which till date have been incurable.

if that ^^^ is what the issue is all about i dont see anything wrong in it... of course religious moralists wud disagree with me, but i ask them to make up their mind whether they care abt curing a sick person or worrying abt a bunch of cells that has not yet evolved into any person.



btw, i am pro-choice in the matter of abortions: leave the choice to the woman. abortions shudnt be made illegal.

[Jaszalcatraz]

Stem cell research is sometimes done with aborted babies. A aborted foeteus fetches a good price on the medical market for possible stem cell research. Statistics say that the number of abortion cases has gone up in the recent past because of this. (no proof but pretty sure about this)



But the fact that stem cell research is used for rehabilitative purposes is encouraging because we can now have organs grown in a dish and then attached to the body. For example the human ear which was grown on the back of the rat. The ear can be given to someone without a ear.

(silly point alert) The only problem with that is it will encourage humans to abuse their bodies more. Especially ppl who can afford constant culture dish development.

Then there are those possibilties where sniffer dogs can have two noses and very soon humans with 6 hands. aint that a bitch

[lizard king]

Then there are those possibilties where sniffer dogs can have two noses and very soon humans with 6 hands. aint that a bitch

thats exactly what people must have thought when they invented the wheel.

[CtrlAltDel]

very soon humans with 6 hands.

4 or 6 hands wud be of gr8 help in bed....

[DQ]

Then there are those possibilties where sniffer dogs can have two noses and very soon humans with 6 hands. aint that a bitch

thats exactly what people must have thought when they invented the wheel.

Think positive Guys. Six hands.....Say you have a child with one outgrowth say a sixth finger, or yourself have an extra limb....Why would humans try that, and thats absurd.



Reminds me of Satans promise to God. "I will sit on the right path and misguide your true beleivers"



He will not misguide the misguided.



A bunch of scientists research and bring out something that could save the human life the right path and there Satan sitting, "Can I have an extra arm" what for.

[san]

Agree with Jasz on - stem cell research is definetly the next step in medicine and should be allowed.



But wanting to recreate lost persons is mental.

[Jaszalcatraz]

Think positive Guys. Six hands.....Say you have a child with one outgrowth say a sixth finger, or yourself have an extra limb....Why would humans try that, and thats absurd.

Reminds me of Satans promise to God. "I will sit on the right path and misguide your true beleivers"

He will not misguide the misguided.

A bunch of scientists research and bring out something that could save the human life the right path and there Satan sitting, "Can I have an extra arm" what for.

You are being too extreme about it now. What you are basically doing is debunking human scientific development based on religious fundas. Atleast discuss pros and cons of the idea before calling it satanic.

[Jaan]

My two cents...



Yes for embryonic and stem cell research: its technology, why restrict science in the name of religion?



I know people who are ok with funding huge nuclear programs because they "keep us safe" and shun anything that touches on this type of health issue. Hypocrites. But can you imagine that you need a bone marrow and can't find a match, I mean we can develop something to DO something about it.



And the fact is, anything can be manipulated for purposes for good or evil, but I personally don't believe that it is enough reason to stop gaining knowledge, however great or small.

[lizard king]

off topic, Jaan...... what are u doing in the land down under?

[Jaan]

off topic, Jaan...... what are u doing in the land down under?

off topic, hehe nothing...that song was playing on the radio and its on repeat in my head, so I thought why not have a sig on that?



But I would love to visit Oz.

Jaan

[lizard king]

off topic, Jaan...... what are u doing in the land down under?

off topic, hehe nothing...that song was playing on the radio and its on repeat in my head, so I thought why not have a sig on that?

But I would love to visit Oz.
Jaan

in my words



welcome to the land down under

Where beer does flow and men chunder



do come to the land down under

Where women glow and men plunder!

[DQ]

Think positive Guys. Six hands.....Say you have a child with one outgrowth say a sixth finger, or yourself have an extra limb....Why would humans try that, and thats absurd.

Reminds me of Satans promise to God. "I will sit on the right path and misguide your true beleivers"

He will not misguide the misguided.

A bunch of scientists research and bring out something that could save the human life the right path and there Satan sitting, "Can I have an extra arm" what for.

You are being too extreme about it now. What you are basically doing is debunking human scientific development based on religious fundas. Atleast discuss pros and cons of the idea before calling it satanic.

Thats the problem when you do not read, just read Satan in my post and went ga go........



Read what I have written about stem cells. Then read what I wrote about scientists being on the right path. Where we go wrong is our negative tendancies where we want an extra arm, eye or _.....thats Satanic.