Is Indian Education really Good?

[Sharjeel]

Moving a good discussion to a new thread...

My *rant* was against those who think that getting grace marks is their *right*, and the system in general which gives grace marks.
I know its Engineering exam and thats why I said that you have to work a bit harder to secure the minimum pass marks otherwise the degree is useless. 40% is still too less compared to undergrad else where. In US its above 60% [A>90, B>80, C>70, everything else F-fail]. So you see, our system is very lenient as we have way too many engineering colleges and the administration need to show higher pass percentage to justify the number of seats. So, they try to push students by setting easy paper and lowering the qualifying marks and even then the pass percentage is low.
[JNTU 97-98 batch, the first batch after increasing the seats, had a pass percentage of 30%!].

Our education standards are low compared to the rest of world thanks to the low cut off (and extra low cut off for SC/ST even in competitive exams ) .

Grace marks are perfectly justified when cut-off is as high as 50 - 60%. I myself benefitted by grace marks once.. got an A instead of B based on my past performance. But in the final sem, my GPA of perfect 4 was screwed (and now I dont Dean's commendation) because that prof thought that I dont deserve the grace mark! 8 A grades and one B, gold medal bye bye!

Grace marks are sort of a buffer, a safety net. In my case, if I had got grace marks, it would have saved a lot of trouble on my part and maybe saved me an year too...

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Good idea.

Well, if you had worked a bit more harder, you could have saved an academic year!

[I am not saying that you didnt work hard. may be you did and the paper was really tough... well, bad luck.]

And what abt the guy who got 2 marks less?

[Sharjeel]

Good idea.
Well, if you had worked a bit more harder, you could have saved an academic year!
[I am not saying that you didnt work hard. may be you did and the paper was really tough... well, bad luck.]
And what abt the guy who got 2 marks less?

The idea is that a student/person should give the price of not studying hard enough, but also to ensure that the students who get very very close to the cut-off do not have to repeat the whole thing.



Peoples' careers depend upon their results, and it would be extremely stupid if someone had to lose a lot of things just because of 1/2/3 marks.



If you take my example: Almost everyone who sees me with a computer praises my skill at everything, be it typing, or programming logic, or graphics, etc.



I have been marked out for a bright careeer in computers, but for my inability to complete my BE. If there had been grace marks, I would have passed a particularly irritating subject, (on atleast 6 occassions, I have failed by 1 or 2 marks), completed my BE and would have been supporting my family by now...

[enigma]

Sharjeel its indeed sad that you missed out by 1 mark





People who think that one should put in better efforts or should have worked real hard dont know that inspite of all that too one can end up with low scores. This might be because of different reasons maybe due to a tough question paper, grudge held by the professor towards a particular student, inconsistent marking etc.



The existing marking system is so unpredictable that even after giving your best shot one cant relax after an exam. Hence i feel if a student needs a mark or two to get through why not give him/her the grace marks and save a year. In doing so the student is motivated to do better the next time. A precious year lost leads to lack of interest and lack of faith in the entire system.





I feel that examinations are not the ultimate test for measuring students intelligence and aptitude. But we have a system which is followed where only marks count. Infact our education system should aim at developing the overall personality of a given individual (this would remain a dream) so no point mentioning it.

[Sharjeel]

Sharjeel its indeed sad that you missed out by 1 mark


People who think that one should put in better efforts or should have worked real hard dont know that inspite of all that too one can end up with low scores. This might be because of different reasons maybe due to a tough question paper, grudge held by the professor towards a particular student, inconsistent marking etc.

The existing marking system is so unpredictable that even after giving your best shot one cant relax after an exam. Hence i feel if a student needs a mark or two to get through why not give him/her the grace marks and save a year. In doing so the student is motivated to do better the next time. A precious year lost leads to lack of interest and lack of faith in the entire system.


I feel that examinations are not the ultimate test for measuring students intelligence and aptitude. But we have a system which is followed where only marks count. Infact our education system should aim at developing the overall personality of a given individual (this would remain a dream) so no point mentioning it.

*applause!*

Well said!

[Lucifer]

Without passing judgement, I should like to say a few things.



It is sad that people do not pass a subject for a mark or two. But the real question is why did they take it up in the first place? It is not like graduation is elementary education where you have no options. You can decide what you want to do.



Since Sharjeel has spoken about himself, I should probably like to dvelve on it a little. You mentioned you were good with computers. In that case you would probably have been better off with a diploma instead of an engineering degree. Do not blame the system. If anything, blame your choice.



People have been saying that the Indian Education system stifles growth and does not let people develop into well-rounded individuals. But, then how many of us actually take up what we wish to do instead of what has been forced upon us?

[Sharjeel]

It is sad that people do not pass a subject for a mark or two. But the real question is why did they take it up in the first place? It is not like graduation is elementary education where you have no options. You can decide what you want to do.

Agreed. But it is never black and white. You can never say that so-and-so decision will work 100%.

Since Sharjeel has spoken about himself, I should probably like to dvelve on it a little. You mentioned you were good with computers. In that case you would probably have been better off with a diploma instead of an engineering degree. Do not blame the system. If anything, blame your choice.

I do have a diploma...



Which is prolly why I thought I was better off pursuing an engineering degree. And prolly why I feel cheated: I have a diploma, and if it any measure for ability, then I should have cleared my Engineering.

[ycr007]

Had this very topic in a GD.



it is very commom anong us indians to blame the "System" whenever we face

personal upheavals in life.I am not saying here that Sharjeel is blaming the

teacher/system only because he has failed but I would like to know

whether Sharjeel Really deserved to get such low marks or not.



M8,lemme ask u frankly,Did u expect to get more that what u got or did u

feel that u'll just abt scrape thru the paper.Also did u check the answers

later? and are the marks awarded to u really way off the mark or are just

nearabout what u did deserve.



I am asking bcoz,I had faced a similar situation in my 6th semester and These

very questions were put infront of me by the principal when I went with my

complain to him.



In the real scenario,from a 3rd person's perspective,one may think

that failing a student by only 1 mark would amount to sadism on the part of

the Evaluator.95% will think that "Ek mark dedeta to uska kya jaata!!!"

but no one will think from the evaluator's point of view.

Maybe the student (Lemme clarify that i am NOT referring to Sharjeel)has

deserved even less marks and the Evaluator has indeed given Grace

marks but those marks were not enuff to pass the candidate.



In most universities,there is a fixed Grace marks.So the evaluator

is at a loss to give him/her more marks just in order to pass the guy/gal.

One may say here that who will know if the evaluator has given really

grace or not but,most evaluation process has a Supervisor who cross

checks the papers in order to see that correct marks r given or not.



So it is easier to blame the system or say tht the Education is not good.

but whait is the need of the hour is introspection

[SimarikSmokin]

i think indian education is good and bad at the time. Good as in the students are real respectful to their teachers. Bad is when they embrass you in front of students and hit you

[lizard king]

man, its not just in India, if ur teachers wanna get u *uked, they can do it any where. there is this bastard who taught me molecular biology for my honours and let me get it right, it was nt in india, he made sure that he gave me 74 instead of 75, that i would nt get a distinction. I dont know if it had to do with him being racist or me being a troublesome student. And for an Autralian Postgraduate Award, it is required that we have disticntion in all the units we do for honours. that costed me one year, to come up with relevant work experience and get one in the end.



so its not worth blaming the education system cos of a couple of _.

[lizard king]

man, its not just in India, if ur teachers wanna get u *uked, they can do it any where. there is this bastard who taught me molecular biology for my honours and let me get it right, it was nt in india, he made sure that he gave me 74 instead of 75, that i would nt get a distinction. I dont know if it had to do with him being racist or me being a troublesome student. And for an Autralian Postgraduate Award, it is required that we have disticntion in all the units we do for honours. that costed me one year, to come up with relevant work experience and get one in the end.



so its not worth blaming the education system cos of a couple of _.

[SAAB]

A discussion after a long time thats worth 48 cents.

Somewhere in the child abuse thread this had started, the way we torment our children forcing them from childhood to beleive that they are good for nothing. Inculcating an habit of dependancy on them.

There are very few independent and confident people that our education system produces, and that credit too cannot be heaped on the system but efforts on part of individuals and their guardians.



TO name a few problems



- Corruption in the education system.



How many cases do you want to see where people have become engineers and doctors, without knowing any thing at all. Why do you think most of the Politicians and Senior ranking officials kin are highly qualified. and the only think you have seen thme do is be involved in rape cases, hanging around bars etc etc... but end of the day Madam or Sir is doctor or engineer.



- Studies promoted for Katnam and other reasons.



How many parents do really teach their children that eduction in whatever field should be acheived to excel in that field and to serve oneself and the community. Every other parent is thrusting the current trend (in education as in fashion) on thier kith.



- As far as marks are concerned.



The apathy about our examination / test system

- is the question papers have glaring mistakes in them, whatmore when the metric itself is wrong, what are you testing the person on. Goes on to show that there is no thought process in the testing system.



- Correction is not on any metric agin, its the individual who does it, and the volume of the papers makes it impossible for verification. So it all depends on one individuals discretion. While working towards and computerised reservation system or voting system the education department / govt should work towards a computerised exam / testing system, where the questions are based on testing the indiviuals competancies and the error in correction is minimal.



Theres a lot more, but lets see what tirade this starts.

[SimarikSmokin]

huney cakes



I am not saying education india is bad, i am saying that the teachers in india insult u and make u do humilating task. But u know education here is a little better though some teachers love to have affairs with 12yr old which is really disgusting.

[CtrlAltDel]

welcome back DQ!!! as a rare gesture, i agree with yr points



depending on individuals to verify the answers in an exam cannot be reliable. the individuals can be influenced by their moods or even by sheer boredom/tiredness.



IMO, the computer based tests are the best for most of the subjects. where ever possible the exams have to be converted to objective type which wud ensure that the students understand things rather than mug up and vomit answers.



written exams can be restricted to a few subjects/papers where its needed to test the writing/info gathering skills of the exminee.

[CtrlAltDel]

welcome back DQ!!! as a rare gesture, i agree with yr points



depending on individuals to verify the answers in an exam cannot be reliable. the individuals can be influenced by their moods or even by sheer boredom/tiredness.



IMO, the computer based tests are the best for most of the subjects. where ever possible the exams have to be converted to objective type which wud ensure that the students understand things rather than mug up and vomit answers.



written exams can be restricted to a few subjects/papers where its needed to test the writing/info gathering skills of the exminee.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

whaaaaaaaaa computerized exams for engineering????!!

[SAAB]

welcome back DQ!!! as a rare gesture, i agree with yr points

depending on individuals to verify the answers in an exam cannot be reliable. the individuals can be influenced by their moods or even by sheer boredom/tiredness.

IMO, the computer based tests are the best for most of the subjects. where ever possible the exams have to be converted to objective type which wud ensure that the students understand things rather than mug up and vomit answers.

written exams can be restricted to a few subjects/papers where its needed to test the writing/info gathering skills of the exminee.

Thank you CAD.



Now as a call of courtesy I agree with all your points to. No arguments.

[ycr007]

Computerized evaluation for Engineering exams is way outta the question.

It may be ok for entrances where only objective questions are asked but

in Semester exams,to gauge the entire gamut of knowledge that the stdent

possesses,objective questions are'nt the ruse.



IMO,the evaluation should be done by Professors of any other college

i.e exchange of scripts should be done to prevent Grudge-BEhaviour.



But the evaluators should be expected to be Impartial & not guided by mere

whims & fancies.



But even then if they are not so,then it is THEIR education system and the

Teacher-Training System that is gotta be blamed and not the PRESENT

education scheme.

[3 T'z]

I dont think computerized examz r da best way 2 judge one's knowledge in most of da subjects.

So in the end its just us or few ppl in the system tht r 2 b blamed..n not the EDUCATION SYSTEM as an whole..!

[Lucifer]

Computerized evaluation for Engineering exams is way outta the question.

On the contrary, we may be much closer to computer evaluation than we think. I have appeared for a few of those during my engineering. In fact, the university I studied in plans to only have computerised evaluation in a few years time.



Personally, to me it made no difference whether a computer evaluated my exam or a professor did. I still got the same sorry marks...

[3 T'z]

Computerized evaluation for Engineering exams is way outta the question.

On the contrary, we may be much closer to computer evaluation than we think. I have appeared for a few of those during my engineering. In fact, the university I studied in plans to only have computerised evaluation in a few years time.

Personally, to me it made no difference whether a computer evaluated my exam or a professor did. I still got the same sorry marks...

It would just b evaluation "---" minus da grudges n partiality..

[CtrlAltDel]

Computerized evaluation for Engineering exams is way outta the question.

On the contrary, we may be much closer to computer evaluation than we think. I have appeared for a few of those during my engineering. In fact, the university I studied in plans to only have computerised evaluation in a few years time.

Personally, to me it made no difference whether a computer evaluated my exam or a professor did. I still got the same sorry marks...

It would just b evaluation "---" minus da grudges n partiality..

...and minus grace marx!

[3 T'z]

Computerized evaluation for Engineering exams is way outta the question.

On the contrary, we may be much closer to computer evaluation than we think. I have appeared for a few of those during my engineering. In fact, the university I studied in plans to only have computerised evaluation in a few years time.

Personally, to me it made no difference whether a computer evaluated my exam or a professor did. I still got the same sorry marks...

It would just b evaluation "---" minus da grudges n partiality..

...and minus grace marx!

yup..n whoz grace..?! ..j/k