Why treat kids as criminals?

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Why treat kids as criminals?





December 20, 2004



In a recent survey on sexual health awareness among school children in India, a leading news magazine, Outlook, came up with revealing statistics. Asked if they have had any sexual experience, 39 per cent boys and girls in Delhi, nine per cent in Chennai, 24 per cent in Kolkata and 18 per cent in Mumbai replied in the affirmative.



Nearly half of them said they had shared their experience with multiple partners; for more than half of them, the experience included intercourse. In each category, Delhi's boys and girls were ahead of school students in the other cities.



Some argue this is a dubious distinction. Others attribute the differential to the meltdown of conservative values that once defined India's urban middle class, more so in Delhi which till recently was a city of government babus.



Sociologists peg the revelation on a cocktail of factors, ranging from double-income parents chasing career and money while sparing little time for their children to Delhi rapidly transforming itself into a city of fixers and wheeler-dealers where more money is made than can be spent sensibly; from aggressive social-climbing by the nouveau riche to an overwhelmingly couldn't-give-a-damn attitude towards the colour of money.



Everybody agrees that the media has played a significant role in promoting a lifestyle that draws no distinction between adolescence and adulthood. Consumerism-driven advertising has contributed its own share by not so subtly promoting hedonism as the right choice and equating licentiousness with liberalism.



Therefore, it makes little sense to pillory two teenaged students -- a boy and a girl -- of a much sought after fashionable Delhi school who have been in the news for a momentary lapse of discretion. The boy is a promising cricketer, the girl a 'super achiever.' The teenagers indulged in some clumsy sex, which the boy recorded on his 'cam-phone' and then sold the video to his chums. Soon, the video was being flashed as an MMS across India.



The boy's caddish behaviour and his enterprising effort to make a quick buck are of a piece with Delhi's all-consuming cash-and-carry culture and its cynical contempt for scruples, morals and values. Authorities who run Delhi's public schools should know this since they are fiercely enterprising in fleecing parents seeking admission for their children. Delhi's parents who excel in grabbing money at any cost should feign no surprise.



In civil societies around the world, juvenile delinquency is tackled through professional counselling. No so in India. The errant boy and girl were expelled from their school, the moral integrity and rectitude of whose authorities few are willing to vouch for. The episode should have ended there, but our law-enforcing agencies have decided to don the moral mantle.



The police has arrested the boy on the strength of a non-bailable warrant, thus denying him the opportunity to seek anticipatory bail, a protection that is routinely accorded with due diligence to India's most hardened criminals, including corrupt politicians. The police has asserted that they are looking at ways and means of questioning the girl who, unable to handle the trauma of public humiliation, has fled to a foreign country.



Overnight, a delinquent act has been converted into a criminal offence. A 17-year-old boy now has a police record that he will never be able to erase from his life: he is scarred forever. The errant girl will probably have to spend the next few years in hiding, far from family and friends: she has been, to use a quaint expression, stigmatised for the rest of her life.



Meanwhile, the CEO of baazee.com, an EBay company and one of the most successful dotcom ventures in India, has been arrested and sent to jail because a post-graduate student at IIT, Kharagpur, tried to auction CDs of the Delhi schoolboy's 'cam-phone' video through this portal. The law-enforcing agencies have threatened this portal with closure for violating Section 67 of the Information Technology Act (transmission of obscene material through electronic media). All this despite baazee.com pulling out the offending item as soon as it was noticed and helping the police to track down the offender who, too, has been picked up.



Perhaps the police would also have the gumption of arresting the CEOs of all cellular phone companies in India because their mobile service facilitated the transmission of the MMS and are, therefore, going by the weird logic of the law-enforcing agencies, equally if not more guilty, as are all newspapers and television channels for publicising the 'cam-phone' video but for which it would not have topped the charts at Delhi's porn den, Palika Bazar, or made the MMS a saleable item on baazee.com.



The law, as the proverb goes, has shown itself to be an ass. Sexual delinquency among juveniles cannot be tackled with police action. Nor can it be dealt with effectively so long as our antiquated legal codes remain in place. The current clampdown is similar to the manner in which antediluvian theocracies deal with social problems. It is at total variance with how modern democracies tackle similar issues.



Experts agree that information on sexual health, otherwise known as 'sex education,' is the best way to prevent sexual delinquency among teenagers. But few are willing to educate children on sexual matters because they fear the law. The Indian Penal Code, through Sections 292, 293 and 394, disallows the exhibition of any material that can be construed as sexually explicit. A teacher could be carted off to jail for drawing a diagram or showing a condom.



These are strange times that we live in. The Government of India embraces terrorists as its 'brothers and sisters,' while the Delhi police, which reports to the Union home ministry, hounds two hapless teenagers for sexual delinquency, something that is common among 23 per cent boys and girls in India's cities. No less strange is the fact that not a whimper of protest has been heard from civil society across the length and breadth of India.

********************



Opinions please.

[mark]

consentual "crimes" really piss me off. i'm rather extremist when it comes to this but i believe the only things that should be crimes (and therefore justification to be denied liberty (which means doing whatever the _ you want) ) are actions which harm another person or another persons property physically.



therefore drug use shouldn't be a crime, suicide shouldn't be a crime, gambling, prostitution, etc. make all these activities legal, tax them hugely, use the tax money gained to educate people about the problems of drug abuse, suicide, gambling, and prostitution, and so on. why should organised crime benifit from these things that'll happen whether they're "illegal" or not?









but as i said my views are extreme.

[Habitual Perfectionist]

consentual "crimes" really piss me off. i'm rather extremist when it comes to this but i believe the only things that should be crimes (and therefore justification to be denied liberty (which means doing whatever the _ you want) ) are actions which harm another person or another persons property physically.

therefore drug use shouldn't be a crime, suicide shouldn't be a crime, gambling, prostitution, etc. make all these activities legal, tax them hugely, use the tax money gained to educate people about the problems of drug abuse, suicide, gambling, and prostitution, and so on. why should organised crime benifit from these things that'll happen whether they're "illegal" or not?




but as i said my views are extreme.

I concur with you Mark. Apropos prohibition in my ex-domicile, Gujarat...although its a dry state, the per-capita consumption of liquor in the state is among the top-10 in India. And guess what...all the money from the sale of illicit liquor goes to the booze mafia, which is said to have strong links with Dawood Ibrahim's D-Company. Sad that in the name of Gandhi, these modern day politicians are filling the coffers of terrorists.



On topic, arresting the student was going too far. Counselling would have been the best option here. I would also like to add the negative role played by the media in this case. Sensationalism was probably the only parameter that media had in mind while handling this case. Imagine the trauma that the innocent students from the school in question would have to go through when their school was hounded day in and day out by the paparazzi.

[Lucifer]

I don't quite agree with the poll options for this poll. The crime in question is NOT trivial.



The two are students of DPS, which means they are both below the age of 18. And that constitutes Child Pornography, something I take very strong views against.



I do agree that porn should be legalised and heavily taxed. But, people associated with child porn should be hacked to death.

[mark]

I don't quite agree with the poll options for this poll. The crime in question is NOT trivial.

The two are students of DPS, which means they are both below the age of 18. And that constitutes Child Pornography, something I take very strong views against.

I do agree that porn should be legalised and heavily taxed. But, people associated with child porn should be hacked to death.

very relative, since sexual maturity occurs at about 14 then where do we draw the line? if ya leave out religious reasons then it's pretty arbitrary. I'm not advocating child porn, but everyone matures at different rates, ya gotta draw the line somewhere, but you've also got to accept that whatever age you pick is totally arbitrary.

[Habitual Perfectionist]

I don't quite agree with the poll options for this poll. The crime in question is NOT trivial.

The two are students of DPS, which means they are both below the age of 18. And that constitutes Child Pornography, something I take very strong views against.

I do agree that porn should be legalised and heavily taxed. But, people associated with child porn should be hacked to death.

Unfortunately in this case, Lucifer, even the perpetrators were minors. And whatever happened was more of a prank rather than a crime, although it assumed much hhigher proportions later in the chain. Does it mean that the students who actually started it all be dealt in the same way as a demented mind into child porn?

[Lucifer]

Marko, you quite misunderstood me. I am not advocating what people should or should not do in their private lives. I am not chastising those kids for having sex. That is their business.



What I am drawing the line at is the availibility of child porn. The law states it is illegal for those below 18 to work in porn (that is common international law in any country), and I shall go by that. I find child pornography sick and it is disgusting that there are sickos out there who actually get off by that! Puke!!!

[mark]

Marko, you quite misunderstood me. I am not advocating what people should or should not do in their private lives. I am not chastising those kids for having sex. That is their business.

What I am drawing the line at is the availibility of child porn. The law states it is illegal for those below 18 to work in porn (that is common international law in any country), and I shall go by that. I find child pornography sick and it is disgusting that there are sickos out there who actually get off by that! Puke!!!

what i am saying is that 18 is a totally arbitrary age. what's wrong with a 17 year old starring in a porn movie? how does 1 year make any difference at all? especially at this stage of development, puberty is long over, etc.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

But this is not child porn lucifer, its more like a leak. So should this not be treated different from the regular child pornography where minors are forced into the act? Besides, you dont charge the children involved in child pornography, then why charge this girl?

Another point is the non bailable warrant issued to the kid and CEO. A non bailable warrant is issued when there is a chance that the accused may tamper with the proof, but in this case there is no chance of the accused (the Kid for selling the clip and the CEO for allowing to be sold) to tamper with anything. Isnt the delhi police being too aggressive over nothing?

[mark]

. Isnt the delhi police being too aggressive over nothing?

sounds that way to me.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Marko, you quite misunderstood me. I am not advocating what people should or should not do in their private lives. I am not chastising those kids for having sex. That is their business.

What I am drawing the line at is the availibility of child porn. The law states it is illegal for those below 18 to work in porn (that is common international law in any country), and I shall go by that. I find child pornography sick and it is disgusting that there are sickos out there who actually get off by that! Puke!!!

what i am saying is that 18 is a totally arbitrary age. what's wrong with a 17 year old starring in a porn movie? how does 1 year make any difference at all? especially at this stage of development, puberty is long over, etc.

Marko, both you and lucifer are right. IMO, there is no defining age for puberty. I most countries 16 is a legal age for having sex, but not acting in porn. While 18 may seem totally arbitaraty age, its not an arbitrary number. Its the age when a woman can carry a child without significant harm to health or the kids health. And since we have to draw the line somewhere, 18 seems to be the right age.

While it is legal to have sex when below 18, it should be illegal to film them for commercial purposes as it will only increase the demand for child porn and every man has that devil inside which years for young flesh. So its better to ban underage porn.

[mark]

Marko, you quite misunderstood me. I am not advocating what people should or should not do in their private lives. I am not chastising those kids for having sex. That is their business.

What I am drawing the line at is the availibility of child porn. The law states it is illegal for those below 18 to work in porn (that is common international law in any country), and I shall go by that. I find child pornography sick and it is disgusting that there are sickos out there who actually get off by that! Puke!!!

what i am saying is that 18 is a totally arbitrary age. what's wrong with a 17 year old starring in a porn movie? how does 1 year make any difference at all? especially at this stage of development, puberty is long over, etc.

Marko, both you and lucifer are right. IMO, there is no defining age for puberty. I most countries 16 is a legal age for having sex, but not acting in porn. While 18 may seem totally arbitaraty age, its not an arbitrary number. Its the age when a woman can carry a child without significant harm to health or the kids health. And since we have to draw the line somewhere, 18 seems to be the right age.
While it is legal to have sex when below 18, it should be illegal to film them for commercial purposes as it will only increase the demand for child porn and every man has that devil inside which years for young flesh. So its better to ban underage porn.

always the most contraversial types of laws are ones which try to draw black and white lines where no such lines exist, i.e. abortion laws, voting age, drinking age, age of consent. Basically if you set the age of consent to 18 you alienate a lot of people who felt ready to have sex before this age, but porn with 16 year olds would seem obsene to me, i agree. but we're products of our times, there have been may cultures (and there will be many cultures in the future) where this is totally acceptable.



i still think 18 is as random as 20, 16, 15, any other age between 12 and 22. it's all about drawing lines. we're not good at that as a species i think

[Habitual Perfectionist]

But a line has to be drawn. Or else, there'll be anarchy.

[mark]

But a line has to be drawn. Or else, there'll be anarchy.

yeah. 1 age for age of consent'd be good though. i fined it ridiculous that your seen mature enough at 16 for sex, but you can't handle alcohol for another 2 years, how messed up is that? which is a bigger decission, alcohol or sex? duh.



and in the US you can choose to have sex 5 years before you can drink alcohol and 2 years before you can choose to die for your country.





totally feckin random

[akhilis2cool]

The parents of such kids need to be rapped. How can they allow kids to carry mobile phones to school? the school authorities also need to b punished here.



I believe the police hasnt done nething wrong in arresting the boy involved since sellng porn is a crime in India. But that alone will not stop such incidenst from happening. Sex education should b made compulsory in schools.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

The parents of such kids need to be rapped. How can they allow kids to carry mobile phones to school? the school authorities also need to b punished here.

They did it at the boys home, not at school.

[akhilis2cool]

The parents of such kids need to be rapped. How can they allow kids to carry to school? the school authorities also need to b punished here.

They did it at the boys home, not at school.

OK, but what abt the parents then....

[CtrlAltDel]

The parents of such kids need to be rapped. How can they allow kids to carry to school? the school authorities also need to b punished here.

They did it at the boys home, not at school.

OK, but what abt the parents then....

what shud the parents do? stay at home all day n monitor what the kids do?



the girl n boy in that clip had sex willingly (or going by Clinton's word its not even sex!) and due to greed or foolishness, it spread...



as i see it, the biggest 'crime' here is that the clip spread all over the world n became famous and came to the notice of the law. is this the only such clip available?



its senseless to prosecute the boy, the girl or Bazee CEO for this clip. the kids are minors and have to be counselled as the article says. the CEO shud put up more safeguards in his site.



the one who can be prosecuted is the IIT student who actually sold porn for profit, which is a crime according to the current law

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Its not a crime to let children you cell phones. If you are as rich as those kids are (the dude is son of a rich business man and the girl father is an ex-army major) you provide all comforts to your kids and if they misuse them in a way no one have thought abt it, then its not really the parents mistake. As for having sex at age 17, its not uncommon; the rediff report has the statistics and I can vouch for it.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

oh i forgot... I read somewhere that the Guy didnt sell the clip for money, he actually fell out with the girl and thats his way of taking revenge and in the process he made some money as well(50 rs per send).

[akhilis2cool]

its senseless to prosecute the boy, the girl or Bazee CEO for this clip. the kids are minors and have to be counselled as the article says. the CEO shud put up more safeguards in his site.
the one who can be prosecuted is the IIT student who actually sold porn for profit, which is a crime according to the current law

the law states clearly that websites must know the contents of the CDs they sell. bazee ignored that part of it. I am not i favour of parents giving schoolgoing kids mobile phones....but then its there choice.....

[ycr007]

I dunno whether all the channels had a pact of some sort but yesterday

evening almost all News channels telecasted half-hr specials on the ongoing three-big scandals.



First was the DPS MMS Scandal and TV9,Star News,CNBC 18 all had their opinions and views and invited eminent lawyers to debate on the issue.

There was a debate on whether Bajaj's arrest was legitimate or not etc tec



Then came the Trisha Scandal.Believe it or not they even showed

the video on air..altho blurred....Trisha herself gave an interview saying

that she had complained to the Chennai Police and reiterated that It was not her but indeed a CG work.

[akhilis2cool]

These type of scandals are a boom time for news channels.



star news showed the videos of miss. J&K and also a sex racket....they seem to have a liking for such things

[CtrlAltDel]

...Trisha herself gave an interview saying that she had complained to the Chennai Police and reiterated that It was not her but indeed a CG work.

movie man Shekar Kammula said yesterday in an interview that its very difficult and expensive to morph a 2 minute video clip.



do u think any mischief monger wud go thru all that trouble only to tarnish trisha's image?



i have a feeling it is trisha.

[ycr007]

...Trisha herself gave an interview saying that she had complained to the Chennai Police and reiterated that It was not her but indeed a CG work.

movie man Shekar Kammula said yesterday in an interview that its very difficult and expensive to morph a 2 minute video clip.

do u think any mischief monger wud go thru all that trouble only to tarnish trisha's image?

i have a feeling it is trisha.

The Morpher does'nt have to morph the entire clip,Just those portions where her face is visible could have been edited/modified in some sort of way to create Trisha's Face...



Remember MI and those mask-scenes