Organ donation

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Read about organ donation in todays Times of India.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/939442.cms



Any of you know about any person in your family or friends who had an organ transplant?

If so, who donated the organ and how did they go about it?

I heard that there is a law in india that only relatives can donate organ (live donor) and irrespective of the patients condition the hospitals wont accept organ from non-relatives. Is that true?

A friend of mine needed bone marrow transplant (she had leukemia) and we collected money for her treatment, but unfortunately it was not enough for the entire treatment and her university insurance company refused to cover the expenses.

She had to go to India for the treatment and the money (in rupees) she had was more than enough for entire treatment, but because of that stupid rule she didnt get a bone marrow and she died three months back, after suffering for almost two years. Had she stayed back in US she could have easily found a donor as they have national list for every type of organ donation and volunteer donors list. Also there is a well established process for cadaver organ transplant.

I guess in India there is no such well laid out procedure, no awareness and the rules dont make it easy either and people resort to buying organs which leads to black market and middle-men/doctors etc making money.

That brings me to the question, is it ethical to buy/sell organs?

[Jaan]

I am sorry for your loss.





As to the ethical question, I will agree to the buying and selling of body organs as long as they are done in full legality...meaning no stealing or fake certifications for it without consent or in black.



I know it is a lot to ask for: that the patient agrees wholeheartedly and no patient is given a donation from the blackmarket...but technology is improving daily and we will see some miracles yet.



Jaan

[Mayavi Morpheus]

As to the ethical question, I will agree to the buying and selling of body organs as long as they are done in full legality...meaning no stealing or fake certifications for it without consent or in black.
Jaan

So is it ok to take advantage of a persons financial situation and buy his organ?

The only organs that a person can donate/sell are kidneys and bone marrow.

A person has two kidneys and if s/he donates one, he can still live with the other one and that life would be better with the money s/he is gonna get. It also saves another person. But what if he takes sick sometime in the future? Same applies for bone marrow too transplant too. You donate bone marrow but you are at risk of losing your mobility as it needs drilling a hole in the knee joint.

Although doctors assure the donors that kidney and marrow donation doesnt effect his life, the donor is still at risk. Given this, isnt it immoral for the reciepient to be paying money for organs? 'cos money lures unrelated people to donate and risk their lives.

[Question]

As to the ethical question, I will agree to the buying and selling of body organs as long as they are done in full legality...meaning no stealing or fake certifications for it without consent or in black.
Jaan

So is it ok to take advantage of a persons financial situation and buy his organ?
The only organs that a person can donate/sell are kidneys and bone marrow.
A person has two kidneys and if s/he donates one, he can still live with the other one and that life would be better with the money s/he is gonna get. It also saves another person. But what if he takes sick sometime in the future? Same applies for bone marrow too transplant too. You donate bone marrow but you are at risk of losing your mobility as it needs drilling a hole in the knee joint.
Although doctors assure the donors that kidney and marrow donation doesnt effect his life, the donor is still at risk. Given this, isnt it immoral for the reciepient to be paying money for organs? 'cos money lures unrelated people to donate and risk their lives.

This is one of those contorvesial topic i guess where everyone is right in there own view heh.. but yah it's a tough spot to be on both sides becuase you certanily need a transplant for your survival and the other side might be just doing it just for some quick money or out of a kind heart but they put their future at stake here.



As MM has mentioned I have also heard that in india that you need to be a relative to do donote for a transplant I personally think it's a stupid rule! sorry abt the loss MM

[lonewolf]

Sorry about the loss Mayavi.



Many Indian laws are still based on the archaic 1800's laws imported by the British when they ruled the country. The British have long gone, but the laws remain, for some bloody reason! Even Britain has changed its own laws a few times upto now. I hope the Indian government wakes up and does something in the positive direction, especially in the medical field.

[CtrlAltDel]

if money is paid...its no longer "Donation"...its "sale of body parts"...which even sounds unethical....



but wherever money and law are involved , there is always a mafia running an illegal black market...i dont know if anything can be done abt the illegal trafficking of internal organs...

[Kavita]

Sorry for this wired post of mine but let me express my opinion.





From the buyers side:

A human has to die some time now or later.

He/she needs an organ to extend their life for some more time.

Attempts to procure an organ.

I understand, when some one dear to us is in such a situation we will not leave any stone unturned and hence we will try to find a donar.





From the sellers side:

He needs money for whatever be the reason and most of the times the person is incapable of earning for his needs or has a unexpected need which needs more money.



I feel all this will only lead to organ market and may grow into a new industry if left uncontrolled. And all the vices will flow in.



I find it completely unenthical as both parties are just trying to meet their needs.



If some one is donating it out of love then its 100% ok.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Bump!

[SimarikSmokin]

I am not an orgon donor however i do donate my blood everytime we have a blood drive FYI: i am AB Positive

[Sharjeel]

I am very confused about organ donation. Instead of my irrelevant opinion, let me give you status of organ trransplant in Islam:





From: http://www.islamicvoice.com/august.98/fiqh.htm

Confronted with two evils a person is permitted to choose the lesser of the two, as in the case of a starving person whose life could be saved by either eating carrion or stealing from another person’s food. He would be permitted to opt for the latter.

Islam made it an obligation upon the sick to seek treatment. In the light of the above principles the Council is of the opinion that:

1. It is permissible for a living person to donate part of the body such as the kidneys to save the life of another, provided that the organ donated would not endanger the donor’s life and that it might help the recipient.

The Prophet (S.A.W.) says, “Whoever helps a brother in difficulty, God will help him through his difficulties on the Day of Judgement.”

2. It is permissible to remove the organ of a dead person to be used to save the life of a sick person.

3. It is permissible for a person to donate his body or parts of it to be used after death to treat those who need transplants. So it is permissible for Muslims to carry a donor card.

4. In the absence of a donor card carried by the dead person it is sufficient to obtain the consent of the next of kin.

5. The proper authorities will act in lieu of relations if they are not known.

From http://www.islamicity.com/Science/organ.ShtmL

The Quran says: "and whoever saves a life it would be as if he saved the life of all the people." Perhaps there is no better way to implement this concept than in the area of saving lives by transplanting donated organs to replace failing vital ones. This conclusion, however, had to be reached after some synthesis of Islamic rules. Basically, violating the human body, whether living or dead, is against the rulings of Islam.

It would follow that incising the body of a living donor or of a cadaver and obtaining the organ to be donated, would be impermissible, had it not been for the invocation of two juridical rules that readily solve the impasse. The first is the rule of "Necessities overrule prohibition." The second is the "choice of the lesser of the two evils if both cannot be avoided." Since the saving of life is a necessity that carries more weight than preserving the integrity of the body of donor or cadaver and since the injury of the body of the donor is less evil compared with leaving the patient to die, the procedure of organ donation and transplantation is sanctioned. It should not pose danger on the donor, as far as medically ascertainable. Rules of free consent devoid of all kinds of pressure should be observed as the donor (or next of kin of deceased donor) indicate their willingness.

Hope these help. A lot of my doubts got cleared while trying to answer your question MM, so thank you for the thread.



Please accept my condolences on the loss. Atleast now she wil be free from suffering.

[akhilis2cool]

So what do u guys have to say about euthanasia?



The story of Venkatesh

[marko]

So what do u guys have to say about euthanasia?

hehe. you know what i think..

I find it completely unenthical as both parties are just trying to meet their needs

This is an odd statement. doesn't everybody try to meet their needs?



I see no problem with selling your organs, as long as it's regulated (i.e, you can only sell to the organ reciever, not some sort of organ stockpile company). Then again, i'm from a country with tax-paid healthcare ("free" if ya like) so it would be harder to force a high price on a desperate punter. Don't know how it would work somewhere like the states, they'd be bidding on frickin eBay for kidneys.

[enigma]

I heard that there is a law in india that only relatives can donate organ (live donor) and irrespective of the patients condition the hospitals wont accept organ from non-relatives. Is that true?


Had she stayed back in US she could have easily found a donor as they have national list for every type of organ donation and volunteer donors list. Also there is a well established process for cadaver organ transplant.

I guess in India there is no such well laid out procedure, no awareness and the rules dont make it easy either and people resort to buying organs which leads to black market and middle-men/doctors etc making money.
That brings me to the question, is it ethical to buy/sell organs?

Mayavi sorry to hear of the loss. It is really sad you lost a friend due to such a reason. May her soul rest in peace.

I was discussing this issue with my father, he being a doctor was telling me that it is true that organs are only accepted from the nearest relation eg mother, father, brother and sister. A nearest relation of a brain dead patient can give his consent on the patient's behalf to transplant his/her organ.

What u had mentioned is more applicable to kidney transplant which is being discouraged now by various laws..Bone marrow transplant is very rare in india, even nearest relations refuse to donate. Cadaver organ transplant is not practised in india presently, but they want to introduce this bill soon .


Some people are resorting to such practises since nearest relations refuse to donate, and now a days people are more in a position to spend money and the needy have no options left. There is a lot to think about this issue though.

[akhilis2cool]

BAd NEws.



Mr. Venkatesh Passed Away



http://www.ndtv.com/topstories/showtopstory.asp?slug=Lost+wish%3A+Man+awaiting+euthanasia+dies&id=15888



And MArk. I believe this is a different issue as compared to the suicide thing.

[Question]

BAd NEws.

Mr. Venkatesh Passed Away

http://www.ndtv.com/topstories/showtopstory.asp?slug=Lost+wish%3A+Man+awaiting+euthanasia+dies&id=15888

And MArk. I believe this is a different issue as compared to the suicide thing.

Damn these idoitc judges and fedup rules all can say is motherF#$#$ ah man wanted to do a good deed and they wont even let him to do that... this one sad sad country.. it's his own organ he has every right to do what ever he wants who the hell are those people to say noo... someone could have gotten eye-sight by nowwww ahhhhhhh grrrrrr



sad to see him pass away without his last wish not being fullfilled

[akhilis2cool]

Yeh man too bad.

the law shd. have acted faster than it did.



in this case there was der and andher too.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Thank you Sherry and Enigma!

Your replies really helped me



Question:

Dont be so quick in judging the law, this is a first of its kind case in India and may be elsewhere in the world too I guess. They guy is essentially asking to be allowed to kill himself and this is not even euthanasia request. You just cannot allow someone to die like that even if he wants to do so for a noble cause.

[Sharjeel]

The question boils down to this choice:



Should life-support systems be used to keep a person alive while he is not fit to live on his own?



Methinks it should not be used. Nature should be allowed to take it's course. While I will be the first toopt for life-support for my loved ones, it really is continued suffering for the person who is ill.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Methinks it should not be used. Nature should be allowed to take it's course. While I will be the first toopt for life-support for my loved ones, it really is continued suffering for the person who is ill.

Well, not in all cases. We just cant kill a person to put him out of misery or pain. Every cancer patient goes through hell when they undergo chemotherahy, but 50% of them get cured as well!

Only in extreme cases should euthanasia be permitted, in cases where there is no hope at all like in the case of the brain dead florida woman whos on life support system for past 12 years. Her husband wants her misery to end, but her parentd dont let the doctors kill her.

[Sharjeel]

Well, not in all cases. We just cant kill a person to put him out of misery or pain. Every cancer patient goes through hell when they undergo chemotherahy, but 50% of them get cured as well!
Only in extreme cases should euthanasia be permitted, in cases where there is no hope at all like in the case of the brain dead florida woman whos on life support system for past 12 years. Her husband wants her misery to end, but her parentd dont let the doctors kill her.

You are only partly true.



The human body was made to function within certain limitations. Big dieases and accidents cause the body to lose many vital functions without which, a person would die (if not for transplants, etc).



Any treatment is valid (IMO), if it takes the person back to atleast 70% of his previous capacity of living.



What good is a human if he has to stay confined to bed, and take injections (worth thousands of rupees) just so he can barely be able to 'exist'?

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Well what right do you have to kill someone and how do you decide that 70% capable thing?

sometimes even a headache would make u want to kill yourself, but you just dont kill yourself cos u re hopeful that it will last only a night. Some disease cause so much pain and you wont be sure when you will be cured and you may want to die but treatment may cure u! So, its not for us to decide but only the doctors can decide who can be granted euthanasia. Everyone else has to live irrespective of the pain. They may get cured someday to live a normal life.

[mark]

BAd NEws.

Mr. Venkatesh Passed Away

http://www.ndtv.com/topstories/showtopstory.asp?slug=Lost+wish%3A+Man+awaiting+euthanasia+dies&id=15888

And MArk. I believe this is a different issue as compared to the suicide thing.

only if you support 1 right but not the other. i believe euthanasia should be allowed for the same reasons i outlined in the other thread for suicide.

[akhilis2cool]

BAd NEws.

Mr. Venkatesh Passed Away

http://www.ndtv.com/topstories/showtopstory.asp?slug=Lost+wish%3A+Man+awaiting+euthanasia+dies&id=15888

And MArk. I believe this is a different issue as compared to the suicide thing.

only if you support 1 right but not the other. i believe euthanasia should be allowed for the same reasons i outlined in the other thread for suicide.

I think they r two different things Mark. A fit and healthy person contemplating suicide is wrong, IMO. But when it comes to a person practically dead, but surviving thru a life support system I guess the same rules do not apply...

[Sharjeel]

Exactly!



If a person is not able to live on his own, or he is of no use to himself or to anyody, then maybe mercy killing is not a bad idea. I would not say Mercy killing, but putting a person on life support just to keep him alive is somewhat stupid, IMO.



If there is a reason (like the promise of a cure, etc) which will make a huge difference to the person, allowing to live his life in a way that most people do (or atleast at a reduced capacity), then only life support is advisable



Again, this is my opinion, and I may be the first to opt for a life-support for my loved ones.

[Kavita]

off the flow,



I wonder, How would MM's friends life end had she/he been India/US trying her best to recover and be with her family, near ones and dear ones?



I would prefer this kind of death (being with my loved ones) if I know I have less time left.