Supersub in cricket

[KK]

What are your views on supersub ? Should the concept exist or be removed from cricket?

[CtrlAltDel]

rehnedo na...kya problem hai?

[smack]

I think, by next world cup these new rules will be history

[KK]

Actually just came to know today that ICC plans to drop the idea of supersub, just what I predicted

[Sharjeel]

Good. The I did not like the idea one bit, unless they update the way they calculate the statistics.

[CtrlAltDel]

what was wrong with this concept anyway?

[smack]

Decision has already been taken. No more supersubs. Power Play remains, though

[Cricketlover HP]

what was wrong with this concept anyway?

It was unfair in some cases to the team losing the toss. So, there was a suggestion from the Indian and Pakistni captains to alter the rule to allow captains to announce their super-sub after the toss. IMO, that amounts to having 12 people in the team and not 11. So it was finally a good decision to scrap the rule.

[rock_26iin]

But if they give both captains the liberty to announce the supersub after the toss, isn't it fair to both??



I think it was a good concept.

[Cricketlover HP]

But if they give both captains the liberty to announce the supersub after the toss, isn't it fair to both??

I think it was a good concept.

That's as close as they can get to having 12 people in the team. The scenario looks like this. The teams announce their playing XII before the toss. After the toss, they decide which one of those 12 will sit out in the first innings and which one in the second. That's actually giving the teams an extra bowler when they are bowling and an extra batsman when they bat. Takes the excitement out of the game. Somehow doesn't appeal to me at all, though I do agree its fair to both sides. Might as well allow both teams an extra player without subbing. Equally fair, I'd say.

[Lucifer]

Time for me to post.



Every game has substitution where the substitute can play the full role of the player he replaces. Anyone from the squad can be a substitute. For some reason, cricketers tend to believe that their game is special, when in fact there are only ten countries that play it.



Make no mistake. I love the game. And I believe that we should have football style substitution in cricket. I don't really agree with HP's theory of having 12 players instead of 11. Does that mean that in football each team fields 23 players?



Announce your playing 11 before the toss, and then substitute. No harm in doing that. But to have just one player that you have to name as your super-sub is ridiculous.

[KK]

But if they give both captains the liberty to announce the supersub after the toss, isn't it fair to both??

I think it was a good concept.

I dont see the point either, its going to be predictable. The team that wins the toss would always choose a batsman as supersub and other goes for a bowler. Instead a team should be given liberty to finalize upon only 10 players before the toss and fix the 11th player just after the toss. This should negate the undue advantage that is associated with winning the toss.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

The team that wins the toss would always choose a batsman as supersub and other goes for a bowler.

WHY?

[KK]

The team that wins the toss would always choose a batsman as supersub and other goes for a bowler.

WHY?

I meant to say that the team that goes for batting first would choose a batsman as supersub while the other chooses a bowler. This way, each team can allow maximum number of batsmen when its the turn for batting and maximum number of bowler/fielders to be on ground when it comes to fielding.

[KK]

what was wrong with this concept anyway?

Ironically, the current supersub concept favours the team that wins the toss. Its related to game theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

[Cricketlover HP]

Time for me to post.

And time for me to bash you up just that one more time Devil.

Every game has substitution where the substitute can play the full role of the player he replaces. Anyone from the squad can be a substitute. For some reason, cricketers tend to believe that their game is special, when in fact there are only ten countries that play it.

You might be talking about games like football, hockey, basketball etc. But there's one fundamental difference here. In these sports, player positions and skills are much more dynamic and fluid than in cricket. Players are usually cross-skilled and positions overlap as per situations. You regularly see midfielders getting into offensive or defensive roles; wingers becoming fulltime attackers or retreating deeper and many other things as the situation warrants. In cricket, you can't expect Inzy or Dravid to bowl like an Akhtar or a Warne; Pathan to keep wickets like Healy and someone like Glenn McGrath to wield the bat like Tendulkar. Plus, in these sports, the playing 11 or 5 are all involved in the game at the same time; unlike in cricket where not all players are actively involved in the game at all points of time. Bottomline....don't compare apples and oranges.

Make no mistake. I love the game. And I believe that we should have football style substitution in cricket. I don't really agree with HP's theory of having 12 players instead of 11. Does that mean that in football each team fields 23 players?

I guess I've answered that by now.

Announce your playing 11 before the toss, and then substitute. No harm in doing that. But to have just one player that you have to name as your super-sub is ridiculous.

Yes...it's ofcourse ridiculous. And even more ridiculous is to bring in the after the toss element to neutralise advantages. Cricket's better off without a super-sub.

[HH]

Looks ... super-'snub' ... Like Losing Politicians ... Being Made 'Law Makers' Through The BackOdor er BackDoor Method (s)... Through The RS / LC / Governor Route ...

[Lucifer]

While there is not much point in debating this issue anymore, there is still such a thing as having discussions for the sake of them.



Before I go into my defence, there is this pet peeve I have against the usage of the phrase "It is like apples and oranges..." for invariably whenever people use the phrase they really have no other argument left in them. Apples and oranges. They are not all that unrelated for they both happen to be fruits. This is a usage as asinine as saying that India will win the next football world cup when they have not even qualified for it.



That does my ranting. Now the post.



Yes, there are cross-skills in football. May be a David Beckham can play as a forward or a defender but can he do what a Nistelrooy can do as a forward or as Inzaghi can do defending? At the level that international football is today, a split second is all that separates the men from the boys. That is why specialist positions exist in soccer. And substitutions are made depending on need. Sometimes a defender is substituted for an additional forward. They might still do the job of kicking the ball, but the purpose they are kicking it is dramatically different.



That is exactly what happens in cricket too. The leather is used by all 11 players, but in dramatically different fashion. When a captain wants to call in an extra bowler it is because the five he has with him are getting clobbered. Or if he is calling for an extra batsman it is because there has been a collapse. And that is exactly the flexibility that subsitutions must allow - by enabling the captain to choose from the entire squad.

[HP Strikes back]

In light of ^^^^^



You forget another major point. In soccer or hockey, both teams attack as well as defend at the same time. Whereas in cricket, one team bats while the other fields and then they revere roles. This makes football style substitution in cricket impossible. A coach may replace a Ronaldo with a Bekham, thus making tactics for his team more defensive. Another may replace a Robben with a Lampard to get into more of posession and long ball tactics. And these substitutions can happen at any point during the game. Inverse cross your heart and tell me, will you ever see a Glenn McGrath coming in for a Matthew Hayden if Australia were chasing? The substitution style that you are proposing will rob cricket of its unpredictability.

[HH]

Earlier 'Twelfth' Man ... Gone ?!? ... - Now 'Super Sub' Is The 'Twelfth' ... Or One Of The 'Twelve' Team ... !?!