What should we do about Kashmir???

by **ananth** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 4:44 am

we are to blame for that because we got them elected. POliticians in india talk a lot but dont get anything done. We had very good strategists like chanakya.. all those people are dead and with them so is the desire to do something to change the situation. Most indians seem to believe that whatever happens is their fate, which does not let them do anything to change the ground situation. If we want a better government , we should elect it. If need be, we must accept changes to our thinking. Even god does not help those who dont help themselves. Our government is doing this doing that.. Why do we let this or that happen ? We cannot claim powerlessness because we ousted the british from our country. That we did not oust our servility towards them is another story. If we are scared to think, we cannot accomplish anything. If we want kashmir solved, WE must solve it. If Pak. is sponsoring terrorism,WE must stop it, irrespective of the method used.
HAving said that... how many people know whom they are voting for ?

by **h2amgeneral** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 11:38 pm

thats tru.. but y doesnt someone lobby for it since it in the hearts and minds ofindian ppl

by D » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:32 pm

who lobbies it? where are most of us who understand and care for this? out in USA and outside of India, right after a professional Grad. why? for better prospects. well...?

by **h2amgeneral** » Sun May 11, 2003 5:16 am

the only way to achieve peace is thru war..

by **JaY** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:59 am

Dude, what is this?

by **suraj** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:05 pm

Hi, the only solution to solve the Kashmir issue is to hold a plebicite, according to the UN resolution, so there is an open opportunity to the people of Kashmir to decide their fate. After all, we all human beings are born independent, and we should think keeping ourselves in the position of Kashmiri people, b\'cos they are also suffering a lot.

by **Mayavi Morpheus** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:18 pm

Are you a Paksitani? Because only Paksitanis ask for plebiscite. Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

by **suraj** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:45 am

Hi, no I am very much Indian, but you do not seem to be Indian, b\'cos, every Indian is first a good human being. You just keep yourself in their position and think.

by **Mayavi Morpheus** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:54 am

You wrote: \"Keeping ourselves in the position of Kashmiri people, b\'cos they are also suffering a lot...\"
 
 
Can you write down about the sufferrings of Kashmiris in general (other than policital suppression during 84 - 89 period) and point out the \"oppressive\" policies of Indian government? Also, I think you would like to point out why militancy started only in 1989, a good 4 decades after partition. And by what coincidence it started in the year when Khalistan movement was effectively put to death and Paki attempts to retake Siachen failed. You might also want to explain to me and others here how the Kashmiris life style and economy was before 1989 and after 1989? How many deaths were registered before 1989 and after 1989? How many troops and regiments were stationed in Kashmir (not border) before and after 1989? You can also add the percentage of Pandits in Kashmir before and after 1989 and percentage of True Kashmiris (Muslims and Hindus) excluding the Pashthun tribes that invaded Kashmir during 1947.
 
 
Once you make a nice little post answering all the questions I posed above, you can explain us how Kasmiris are sufferring at the Hands of \'evil\' Indians. Sometimes I wonder how gullible these kids are to Paki propaganda... duh.

by **arch** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:40 pm

um.m, Interesting and informative direction for discussion,MM. Post it.. had been wanting to know, but .... anyways.. Find your postings to be thought provoking and balanced

by **Mayavi Morpheus** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:29 am

Would love to, but I will give Suraj the oppurtuinity to enlighten us of the \'atrocities\' Indians are commiting in Kashmir. After all its him who asked for self determination of Kashmir!

by **Suraj** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 11:21 am

Hi,Mayawi I am not interested in any Politics,like u,but I only have one question,which I think only Kashmiris can give not u.What do Kashmiris want?

by **Mayavi Morpheus** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 11:16 pm

Suraj, first of all try to understand the difference betwen politics and military stratergy.
 Then try to sink it in ur mind that past defines ur future. Today u woke up and read on Hyd forum that Kashmiris are being terrorrised (u dunno anything abt the issue and have no knowledge of the dynamics of kashmir, dunno the past, dunno the present)and u suggest self determination!
 U dont know what a Kashmiri wants, u assume that I too dunno anything abt kashmir or kashmiris, and u blame me of playing politics(thats a good excuse to skip answering the questions I posed).
 
 Do u atleast know that nearly 30,000 people were killed in Kashmir? mostly terrorrists , paksitanis and afghanistanis?
 Very few are Kashmiris. Do u know that 400,000 pandits (considerable percentage of valley population) were displaced from kashmir valley not by their neighbours, but by terrorrists! The pandits have great relations with muslims. There hasnt been a single case of communal voilence in Kashmir since independance.
 
 U HAVE SUGGESTED A SOLUTION. U MUST HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF THE PROBLEM.U MUST REASON IT. PLEASE ENLIGHTEN US INSTEAD OF ACCUSING ME OF PLAYING POLITCS.IF U CANT S*T*F*U.

by **Suraj** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:45 am

Hi,Morphos,You donot think that I am supporting pakistan I am just a neutral Indian,and a human rights worker,if u want I can give u number of atrocities what Soldiers have done their(I am not blaming all),which are registered and some of their cases are running in Our courts also
 U have told the number of deaths much less,more than 80,000 kashmiris have died.
 
 I should like to make it clear that question of aiding Kashmir in this emergency is not designed in any way to influence the State to accede to India. Our view which we have repeatedly made public is that the question of accession in any disputed territory or state must be decided in accordance with wishes of people and we adhere to this view, it is quite clear. I have thought it desirable to inform you of situation because of its threat of international complications.\"
 (Excerpts of telegram dated 26 October 1947 from Jawaharlal Nehru to the British Prime Minister, Clement Battle)
 
 \"Kashmir\'s accession to India was accepted by us at the request of the Maharaja\'s government and the most numerously representative popular organization in the state which is predominantly Muslim. Even then it was accepted on condition that as soon as law and order had been restored, the people of Kashmir would decide the question of accession. It is open to them to accede to either Dominion then.\"
 (Telegram No. 255 dated 31 October, 1947, PM Nehru\'s telegram to PM of Pakistan)
 
 
 
 \"...our assurance that we shall withdraw our troops from Kashmir as soon as peace and order is restored and leave the decision regarding the future of the State to the people of the State is not merely a promise to your Government but also to the people of Kashmir and to the world.\"
 (Jawaharlal All Nehru, Telegram No. 25, October 31, 1947, to Liaqat Ali Khan, PM of Pakistan)
 
 
 
 
 \" We have declared that the fate of Kashmir is ultimately to be decided by the people. That pledge we have given, and the Maharaja has supported it not only to the people of Kashmir but the world. We will not, and cannot back out of it. We are prepared when peace and law and order have been established to have a referendum held under international auspices like the United Nations. We want it to be a fair and just Reference to the people, and we shall accept their verdict. I can imagine no fairer and juster offer.\"
 (On 2nd November, 1947, broadcast to the nation over All India Radio, Pundit Nehru, PM of India)
 
 
 Note: I am a very busy person,so I donot have time to discuss on this never ending war of words,with people like u who sit comfortably on the table and type what ever u like.But it seems that u donot have any other work just to blindly support ur point of view.

by **Suraj** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:48 am

\"As the conflict in Kashmir enters its fourth year, central and state authorities have done little to stop the widespread practice of rape by Indian security forces in Kashmir. Indeed, when confronted with the evidence of rape, time and again the authorities have attempted to impugn the integrity of the witnesses, discredit the testimony of physicians or simply deny the charges everything except order a full inquiry and prosecute those responsible for rape\".
 (Asia Watch and Physicians for Human Rights, May 09, 1993)
 
 
 \"Since January 1990, rape by Indian occupation forces has become more frequent. Rape most often occurs during crackdowns, cordon and search operations during which men are held for identification in parks or schoolyards while security forces search their homes. In raping them, the security forces are attempting to punish and humiliate the entire community.\"
 (\'Pain in Kashmir: A Crime of War\' issued jointly by Asia Watch and Physicians for Human Rights, May 09, 1993)
 
 
 \"By beginning TV cameras and prohibiting the presence in Kashmir of the International Red Cross and of human rights organization, the Indian authorities have tried to keep Kashmir out of the news.\"
 (`Kashmiri crisis at the flash point\', The Washington Times, by columnist Cord Meyer, April 23, 1993)
 
 
 \"Despite pressure from League of Human Rights and other humanitarian organizations the Indian forces have not desisted from using torture and sequestration of political opponents and using methods that defy imagination.\"
 (Le Quotidien de Paris, September 05, 1992)
 
 
 \"(On February 23, 1991), at least 23 women were reportedly raped in their homes at gunpoint (at Kunan Poshpora in Kashmir). Some are said to have been gang-raped, others to have been raped in front of their children ... The youngest victim was a girl of 13 named Misra, the oldest victim, name Jana, was aged 80\".
 (Amnesty International, March 1992)
 
 
 \"The most common torture methods are severe beatings, sometimes while the victim is hung upside down, and electric shocks. People have also been crushed with heavy rollers, burned, stabbed with sharp instruments, and had objects such as chilies or thick sticks forced into their rectums. Sexual mutilation has been reported\".
 (Amnesty International, March 1992)

by **Mayavi Morpheus** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:47 am

Suraj, in my first response I said that kids are gullible to propagande. You have proved me true.
 U quote 1947 telegram of Nehru and some stupid Human rights reports, thats really hilarious. Human rights are the last thing that should be quoted in conflicts. Those buggers support criminals only and never present the correct view.
 Amnesty is the same HR association that condemns AP police for killing naxalites (and remains mum when police are ambushed and killed and people are killed), its the same association that supports kashmir terrorrists when they are arrested (and again keeps mum when Indian soldiers are killed). I am not saying that the Indian army doesnt commit crime in Kashmir. It does. Nothing is perfect, IA is no exception. There are few black sheep in the army. Recently a JCO was arrested and sentenced for rape. The army deals with them aptly.
 
 Anyway u are missing the main point here. Why is the army in Kashmir? why are there no Rape cases against the army prior to 1989! Why why why? why dont I see any HR violation before 1989 and wahtever happened, happened only after 1989?
 
 Go Figure out.
 
 Also figure out why India thinks that plebiscite is meaningless in todays Kashmir? Why India, even UN doesnt insist on plebiscite. No country in the world except for paksitan asks for plebiscite in kashmir. Thats why I called u a paki in my first post.
 
 You wanna know the reason? Read up what u posted above. Nehrus words. India never forced Kashmir to join the Union. Infact the Mahraja of Kashmir planned to join paksitan.
 
 LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY OF KASHMIR:
 Kashmir , Jammu and ladakh are three different parts ruled by hindu maharaj. Jammu has Hindu majority and ladakh has budhist majority, all pro-India. The kashmir valley and POK are muslim majority. No one know who they wanted to side until 1947. KASHMIR WAS NEVER A PART OF BRITISH EMPIRE.
 In 1947 Pakisatan started pushing in pashtun tribes men into kashmir. The regualar paki army guised as tribes men led the tribes into kashmir. They looted, raped and killed kashmiris and occupied whole of kashmir. The maharaja of kashmir, who till then was planning to join paksitan, changed mind and asked for Indias help. India, on Lord MountBattens suggestion sent troops to kashmir who repulsed the paki attack, meanwhile Nehru, peace lover went to UN and called for a cease fire. Nehru proposed plebiscite (Note: India suggested plebiscite, not pakis) on condition that paksitan pulls back its troops from POK, which they never did and India never held plebiscite. The LOC Was formed and Kashmir was part of India. India pulled back its troops. Kashmiris were living happily till 1989. Then it all started.
 Now do u understand why India doesnt hold plebiscite? The kashmiris are not the orignial kashmiris anymore. Pakis and ISI agents have infiltrated everywhere and if there is a plebiscite, it will be the pakis who\'ll be voting ,not the genuine kashmiris. Its not the question of freedom anymore, its the question of Religion and Jihad.

by **Mayavi Morpheus** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:59 am

Oh boy I missed the nugget in ur post. War of words...blind support of my POV.....Stupid kid. First answer my questions before coming out with crap. SEEMS U CANT ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.
 And Mr.impostor, in one post u say ur brother is in army, another post u become HR worker and condemn army!
 U have no udnerstanding of the issue at hand,seems u read some stupid reports on internet, and started blaming India. u dont have an inkling of whats going on in kashmir, u dunno the past, u dunno the present, u dunno anything.
 What next will u quote some paki sources to prove ur point?
 Pseudo-secs like u are a bane to this nation.

by ZC » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:21 pm

Remove article 370. Take the people from slums of all metros and distribute free land in J and K. Problem solved. Does nay politician have the guts to start the process ?

by **tipu** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:54 pm

If u get a land,do u have guts to go and live there,be practical,do say as u like sitting cooly in the interior region.

by **tipu** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:54 pm

If u get a land,do u have guts to go and live there,be practical,do not say as u like sitting cooly in the interior region.

by **arch** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:09 pm

Nope, Suraj, Every Human being is first asked what nation he/she belongs to, not if he is a human !! Quit being an idealist. By the way, what is being human? ! kind ? compassionate ? humane ?

))
 Is the human rights org humane ? why does it condemn whatever US /Isreal/India does but not what Saddam did or what the Plaestinians suicide bombers doing or what happened in France\'s Oldage homes during the summer..? who decides what is human ? who decides what is protecting/defending ?

by **Suraj** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:08 pm

Hi arch,Thank God atleast,people like u donot decide which is human and which is not.Think if all of a sudden Dravidians in South say that \"You Aryans u are not original breed of Inidans,so get out of our Country India\",and if they started pulling down your houses,and arresting u and putting u in jails,and if they(Dravidians) are well armed and you have only stones,and they donot even allow u to go to other cities to work.What u will do to defend urself?.The situation in Plastin is much worse than this.And donot forget the words of our Father of Nation \"Mahatma gandhi\",\"Plastin is for phalastinians\",and exactly that was our foreign policy before this BJP govt.

by **Suraj** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:08 pm

Hi arch,Thank God atleast,people like u donot decide which is human and which is not.Think if all of a sudden Dravidians in South say that \"You Aryans u are not original breed of Inidans,so get out of our Country India\",and if they started pulling down your houses,and arresting u and putting u in jails,and if they(Dravidians) are well armed and you have only stones,and they donot even allow u to go to other cities to work.What u will do to defend urself?.The situation in Palastin is much worse than this.And donot forget the words of our Father of Nation \"Mahatma gandhi\",\"Palastin is for phalastinians\",and exactly that was our foreign policy before this BJP govt.

by **Mayavi Morpheus** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:10 am

er no. The shift in Foreign policy was during PV narasimha rao government. BJP was just takin that policy a little bit further.
 Anyway, what has it got to do with Kashmir?

by ZC » Wed Oct 29, 2003 8:42 am

First : it is ur opinion that u wont settle in Kashmir if u get free land. so, keep it to urself. whether i am practical or not, this solution has been suggested by many. allow others to settle in Kashmir (giving free land was my addition). What militants are trying to do is eliminate most of the Hindus in J and K. Then the govt should send in more people there. else, one day u wont see any Hindu left there. and thats what u want to see i guess, Tippu sultan !! elimination of all Hindus. Islamic fundamentals ki maa ** *****

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