What is Zionism

[DQ]

Zionism, the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, advocated, from its inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims.



Jews of all persuasions, left and right, religious and secular, joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient homeland was attained. The term "Zionism" was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.



http://www.templemount.org/theories.html



Just an upfront to Mayavi on meanings and defenitions of terms. And the ultimate motives.



Coining a term such as Zionist in an arguement does not make a person Pro Arab or Watching to much arab media or a mullah follower.



Zionism and Extremism are the two greatest threats that hummanity needs to be wary about.



Yes, Why.



Both want to gain their own spiritual gains, irrespective of what they do.



Who is to define if their spiritual gains are appropriate.? No one.



They will go to any extent to spread their thought.



Be it terror as a fugitive or state sponsored terror. If you dig deeper into their ideology, both these have complete disrespect of agreed upon basic human rights.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Its funny that you bring Zionism into a topic which has nothing to do with Jews and then start another topic to justify it

Hows Zionism relevant to a Indo-pak thread? Are you indicating that Indians are zionists?

I have never seen anyone demonising jews except pakistani and Arab news sources.

Zionism and Extremism are the two greatest threats that hummanity needs to be wary about

Why Zionism? Why not Muslim fundamentalists? Why not Hindu fundamentalists?

In your definition of Zionism, replace Jews with muslims and Israel with paksitan. Everything fits well, so is Islam'ism too a threat to humanity?



I dont know in what context you are using the word zionism, but its generally used to criticize jews, and I have only seen it used in islamic media and not anywhere else.

Every religion has its share of franatics - zionists, Islamic fundamentalists, Hindu fundamentalists and christian fundamentalists. You dont have to point out one particular religion and say that its a threat for world peace.

[DQ]

Its funny that you bring Zionism into a topic which has nothing to do with Jews and then start another topic to justify it
Hows Zionism relevant to a Indo-pak thread? Are you indicating that Indians are zionists?
I have never seen anyone demonising jews except pakistani and Arab news sources.

Zionism and Extremism are the two greatest threats that hummanity needs to be wary about

Why Zionism? Why not Muslim fundamentalists? Why not Hindu fundamentalists?
In your definition of Zionism, replace Jews with muslims and Israel with paksitan. Everything fits well, so is Islam'ism too a threat to humanity?

I dont know in what context you are using the word zionism, but its generally used to criticize jews, and I have only seen it used in islamic media and not anywhere else.
Every religion has its share of franatics - zionists, Islamic fundamentalists, Hindu fundamentalists and christian fundamentalists. You dont have to point out one particular religion and say that its a threat for world peace.

DID you read Zionism and Extremism with it.

(Why are you fixated my friend.)



Extremists forces such as



The Taliban, The Saudi Kingdom, The Sangh Parivar, The Modi Sarkar........ I din want to spell everything, presuming I was discussing this in a mature audience with sensible people??





And FOR YOUR Kind Information, No word here has been used to critize anyone. Its a known fact !!



Did you not read the definition in the first post on this thread. It was straight of a Jewish resource. If I had to critisize someone why would I quote from them ?



Drawing Parallels.



Extremists wants a Hindu Rastra.

Extremists want a rule by Sunnah.

Extremists / zionists want a homeland.

Extremists / zionists want to build a temple. Wether it be on the mount or in ayodhya



the list goes on........



to acheive this they will bomb towers,

they will bomb homes of innocent people,

they will shoot at 14 yr old school girls,

they will sponsor riots,

they will sponsor systematic rape their only motive is to acheive their goal. They know no boundaries......



Is this not threat to humanity ????

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Why are u fiixated with Zionism my half tonne friend?

You could have said Islamic fundamentalism and Extremism (which covers all religious fundamentalism) and I would have agreed with u

[DQ]

Why are u fiixated with Zionism my half tonne friend?
You could have said Islamic fundamentalism and Extremism (which covers all religious fundamentalism) and I would have agreed with u

There again you err......



There is nothing as Islamic fundamentalism. What ever is purpoted as fundamentalism is actually extremism for personal gains.



Zionism is existant. Excluding Zionism while discusssing extremisim, excludes it from being a part of extremism.



Thats when you will have to accept the Bush theory of "terrorism".

Where whatever you feel bad is terrorism all else is OK......



Then you voice and pitch into regions of whose demographies you are not aware of. As in the other thread proved without doubt that without knowing the region you purpoted that Islam is the binding force of Pakis, which was proved otherwise.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

There again you err......

There is nothing as Islamic fundamentalism. What ever is purpoted as fundamentalism is actually extremism for personal gains.

Zionism is existant. Excluding Zionism while discusssing extremisim, excludes it from being a part of extremism.

Thats when you will have to accept the Bush theory of "terrorism".
Where whatever you feel bad is terrorism all else is OK......

Frankly speaking, I am getting tired of your asinine logics.
You just put forth your point of view and claim that its the truth.
I donot see any difference between Zionism and Islamic fundametnalism or any other religious fundamentalism. I already explained why. If you forgot the creation of pakistan, then there is something wrong with out history books.
You recognize that jews conceived the idea of a seperate jewish state and fought for it and u label it as zionism. Paksitan did the same - a seperate homeland for the muslims of the INdian subcontinent, why then is it not considered the same as zionism? Is it because it doesnt have a fancy name like zionism?

Then you voice and pitch into regions of whose demographies you are not aware of. As in the other thread proved without doubt that without knowing the region you purpoted that Islam is the binding force of Pakis, which was proved otherwise

The hell you proved it. You didnt prove anything. I just stopped arguing because I thought its stupid to argue over such a trivial thing with you. Pakistan is a ISLAMIC State and if you didnt know that, you betterknow it now! If you didnt know that the sole purpose of pakistans existence is to have a seperate home land for Indian muslims, then no one can argue with you. There is no other logical reason for the existence of pakistan other than Islam.

[DQ]

There again you err......

There is nothing as Islamic fundamentalism. What ever is purpoted as fundamentalism is actually extremism for personal gains.

Zionism is existant. Excluding Zionism while discusssing extremisim, excludes it from being a part of extremism.

Thats when you will have to accept the Bush theory of "terrorism".
Where whatever you feel bad is terrorism all else is OK......

Frankly speaking, I am getting tired of your asinine logics.
You just put forth your point of view and claim that its the truth.
I donot see any difference between Zionism and Islamic fundametnalism or any other religious fundamentalism. I already explained why. If you forgot the creation of pakistan, then there is something wrong with out history books.
You recognize that jews conceived the idea of a seperate jewish state and fought for it and u label it as zionism. Paksitan did the same - a seperate homeland for the muslims of the INdian subcontinent, why then is it not considered the same as zionism? Is it because it doesnt have a fancy name like zionism?

Then you voice and pitch into regions of whose demographies you are not aware of. As in the other thread proved without doubt that without knowing the region you purpoted that Islam is the binding force of Pakis, which was proved otherwise

The hell you proved it. You didnt prove anything. I just stopped arguing because I thought its stupid to argue over such a trivial thing with you. Pakistan is a ISLAMIC State and if you didnt know that, you betterknow it now! If you didnt know that the sole purpose of pakistans existence is to have a seperate home land for Indian muslims, then no one can argue with you. There is no other logical reason for the existence of pakistan other than Islam.

LOL same rhetoric...Pakistan a seprate state for INDIAN MUSLIMS ??? HAH.



INDIAN MUSLIMS ARE INDIANS. NOT PAKIS. grrrrrrrrrrrrr....



I dont label anything look up any dictonary.!!!!



Sorry its your acceptance level that is low. The best thing I like in you is you see the world with your own prespective and label people accordingly. I should be really insane to carry on furthur. <EOM>

[akhilis2cool]

I guess what Mayavi is trying to say is that the muslims who moved away to Pakistan during the partition were Indians before they moved. As of now they are pakistanis's, no doubt.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

There again you err......

There is nothing as Islamic fundamentalism. What ever is purpoted as fundamentalism is actually extremism for personal gains.

Zionism is existant. Excluding Zionism while discusssing extremisim, excludes it from being a part of extremism.

Thats when you will have to accept the Bush theory of "terrorism".
Where whatever you feel bad is terrorism all else is OK......

Frankly speaking, I am getting tired of your asinine logics.
You just put forth your point of view and claim that its the truth.
I donot see any difference between Zionism and Islamic fundametnalism or any other religious fundamentalism. I already explained why. If you forgot the creation of pakistan, then there is something wrong with out history books.
You recognize that jews conceived the idea of a seperate jewish state and fought for it and u label it as zionism. Paksitan did the same - a seperate homeland for the muslims of the INdian subcontinent, why then is it not considered the same as zionism? Is it because it doesnt have a fancy name like zionism?

Then you voice and pitch into regions of whose demographies you are not aware of. As in the other thread proved without doubt that without knowing the region you purpoted that Islam is the binding force of Pakis, which was proved otherwise

The hell you proved it. You didnt prove anything. I just stopped arguing because I thought its stupid to argue over such a trivial thing with you. Pakistan is a ISLAMIC State and if you didnt know that, you betterknow it now! If you didnt know that the sole purpose of pakistans existence is to have a seperate home land for Indian muslims, then no one can argue with you. There is no other logical reason for the existence of pakistan other than Islam.

LOL same rhetoric...Pakistan a seprate state for INDIAN MUSLIMS ??? HAH.

INDIAN MUSLIMS ARE INDIANS. NOT PAKIS. grrrrrrrrrrrrr....

I dont label anything look up any dictonary.!!!!

Sorry its your acceptance level that is low. The best thing I like in you is you see the world with your own prespective and label people accordingly. I should be really insane to carry on furthur. <EOM>

Thank you once again.

Please stand by your word and dont bother to reply to my posts if its beyond your comprehension.



INDIAN MUSLIMS ARE INDIANS. NOT PAKIS. grrrrrrrrrrrrr....



That really cracked me up... keep those nuggets coming. I really didnt know that till you told me! ROTFLMAO!!!

[DQ]

I guess what Mayavi is trying to say is that the muslims who moved away to Pakistan during the partition were Indians before they moved. As of now they are pakistanis's, no doubt.

Yea dude theres a difference between trying to say and getting away with whatever you say.

[akhilis2cool]

I guess what Mayavi is trying to say is that the muslims who moved away to Pakistan during the partition were Indians before they moved. As of now they are pakistanis's, no doubt.

Yea dude theres a difference between trying to say and getting away with whatever you say.

dunno,

I understood it straight away...

[DQ]

I guess what Mayavi is trying to say is that the muslims who moved away to Pakistan during the partition were Indians before they moved. As of now they are pakistanis's, no doubt.

Yea dude theres a difference between trying to say and getting away with whatever you say.

dunno,
I understood it straight away...

Clever

[akhilis2cool]

I guess what Mayavi is trying to say is that the muslims who moved away to Pakistan during the partition were Indians before they moved. As of now they are pakistanis's, no doubt.

Yea dude theres a difference between trying to say and getting away with whatever you say.

dunno,
I understood it straight away...

Clever

really

[DQ]

I guess what Mayavi is trying to say is that the muslims who moved away to Pakistan during the partition were Indians before they moved. As of now they are pakistanis's, no doubt.

Yea dude theres a difference between trying to say and getting away with whatever you say.

dunno,
I understood it straight away...

Clever

really

Donno

[akhilis2cool]

I guess what Mayavi is trying to say is that the muslims who moved away to Pakistan during the partition were Indians before they moved. As of now they are pakistanis's, no doubt.

Yea dude theres a difference between trying to say and getting away with whatever you say.

dunno,
I understood it straight away...

Clever

really

Donno

let it b....

[Reality,,its here.Accept it]

Zionism, the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel, advocated, from its inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims.

Jews of all persuasions, left and right, religious and secular, joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient homeland was attained. The term "Zionism" was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.

Well I am going to stick to this thread when I am replying to this topic.
Thanks for the information about 'Zionism' but that isnt any new 'news' about it. I guess anybody who heard the word before would have looked up the meaning. But again thanks for the update.

Just an upfront to Mayavi on meanings and defenitions of terms. And the ultimate motives.

Coining a term such as Zionist in an arguement does not make a person Pro Arab or Watching to much arab media or a mullah follower.

I hope everybody sticks to the same definitions of the words when they talk about other people too. Just like you say using the term 'Zionist' doesnt make anyone pro-arab, I hope using the term 'Islamic fundamentalism' doesnt make anybody a 'Hindu fanatic', coz I saw supposedly 'moderate' muslims like Shabana Azmi react rabidly to that term.

Zionism and Extremism are the two greatest threats that hummanity needs to be wary about.

Yes, Why.

Both want to gain their own spiritual gains, irrespective of what they do.

Who is to define if their spiritual gains are appropriate.? No one.

They will go to any extent to spread their thought.

Be it terror as a fugitive or state sponsored terror. If you dig deeper into their ideology, both these have complete disrespect of agreed upon basic human rights.

When you say 'Zionism' and spiritual gains it makes sense. but club the words "Extremism" and "spiritual gains" doesnt really state much.

Since I noticed that you are such a stickler for dictionary meanings, I think you will have to clarify which kind of extremism works for spiritual gains, and you can not just let the individual reader draw conclusions from an ambigious statement like that.



About the last statement, I think when a particular religion does not accept the exsistence of other religions or faiths it loses its moral right to preach about human values.

[mark]

all of your points are excellent. I agree with everyone.

[Lucifer]

Feels good to be back!!!

[Der Schakal]

Feels good to be back!!!

Trying to make a Star Hyderabdi today?

[Reality,,its here.Accept it.]

Feels good to be back!!!

Trying to make a Star Hyderabdi today?

Why dont you spam the threads that talk about upma or someother light topic than come here. please do not kill the boards. people lose interest when there is this much amount

of spam on each and every topic.

please try and leave some threads alone.

[Habitual Perfectionist]

Coining a term such as Zionist in an arguement does not make a person Pro Arab or Watching to much arab media or a mullah follower.

First of all, Zionist is not meant to be demeaning to Jews. You yourself said that the term was coined by one Birbaum (a Jew). How can a jew coin a term derogatory to his own religion?

Zionism and Extremism are the two greatest threats that hummanity needs to be wary about.

Poverty, illiteracy, uneven distribution of food and water etc. are anyday bigger threats to humanity than religious fundamentalism IMO.

Who is to define if their spiritual gains are appropriate.? No one.

Who is to define if your spiritual gains are appropriate? No one. Does that make you a threat to humanity?

They will go to any extent to spread their thought.

Aren't you?

Be it terror as a fugitive or state sponsored terror. If you dig deeper into their ideology, both these have complete disrespect of agreed upon basic human rights.

Again...who defines human rights? And tell me one place on this planet where all human beings are treated equal. You're talking Utopia again my friend.

Why dont you spam the threads that talk about upma or someother light topic than come here. please do not kill the boards.

Yeah...Spam SS' threads.

[DQ]

I hope everybody sticks to the same definitions of the words when they talk about other people too. Just like you say using the term 'Zionist' doesnt make anyone pro-arab, I hope using the term 'Islamic fundamentalism' doesnt make anybody a 'Hindu fanatic', coz I saw supposedly 'moderate' muslims like Shabana Azmi react rabidly to that term.

When you say 'Zionism' and spiritual gains it makes sense. but club the words "Extremism" and "spiritual gains" doesnt really state much.
Since I noticed that you are such a stickler for dictionary meanings, I think you will have to clarify which kind of extremism works for spiritual gains, and you can not just let the individual reader draw conclusions from an ambigious statement like that.

About the last statement, I think when a particular religion does not accept the exsistence of other religions or faiths it loses its moral right to preach about human values.

I am not aware of what and whose reation you are talking about ?

Yes I stand by stating that there is no such thing as Islamic Fundamentalism.
Yes relegious fundametlism does exist and every relegion has their own set of fundamental people. But they do not neccesarly have to be extremists.

The term Islamic Fundamentalism is so misplaced, that foreign ministers of various Industralised have started now terming the so called Islamic Fundamentalists as Islamists, so the next step would be "War on Islam or Islamists" and not "Islamic fundamentalists"

If you are terming the likes of Taliban as fundamentlists you are wrong, they are "extremists" and not fundamentlists.

And extremism is a political action and a relegious one.!!!!

Fundamentalism is adhering to ones own principles and denouncing others. Extremism is acting outside of the norms.

When you say 'Zionism' and spiritual gains it makes sense

How ?



Does displacing a million people mean spiritual gain.

Does blatant disregard to UN charter mean spiritual gain.

We have to agree that all the actions of the Zionists are outside the set norms, does that not classify them equal to extremists.



Lets us refer the Preamble of the UN.



"WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED

to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind"



Both extremism and zionism have constantly broken this basic principle, and have bought the world closer and closer to war.



Exactly why both are the greatest threat to mankind today.

[Reality,,its here.Accept it.]

I did not want to post a reply but I had to find out the answer.

Why do you get the meanings of simple sentences soo wrong? where does the mistake lie,,with you or me?

I make such a simple statement and you just go off and on about something that it did not say anything about in the first place.

I would like to elaborate but at the moment I am tired and hungry,,so some other time.

Just read my sentence (which you quoted in your previous post) in context and not out of it.

[CtrlAltDel]

Why do you get the meanings of simple sentences soo wrong? where does the mistake lie,,with you or me?
I make such a simple statement and you just go off and on about something that it did not say anything about in the first place.

Reality, say hello to DQ...!!

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Why do you get the meanings of simple sentences soo wrong? where does the mistake lie,,with you or me?
I make such a simple statement and you just go off and on about something that it did not say anything about in the first place.

Reality, say hello to DQ...!!

Bwahhahahaaahaha!