india
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india
Greatness or otherwise is a very subjective concept. Well, a lot of people feel good about their past achievements. If that is justified, then we do indeed have a lot to be proud of. On the other hand, we also have a lot to be ashamed of. However, having a low self esteem does not do one good. So look at the bright side and be proud.
- Murali
- Guest
india
If it were such a godforsaken land, why are you still here? Get out of this country and seek your fortune in other places where you will perennially be treated as a second-grade citizen. Let teh capitalist western nations extract the most out of you and pay you peanuts in return. Sell your soul and your services for green backs and curse the land of your forefathers. The land is not god forsaken. People like you are.
- Prakup
- Guest
india
Hello Prakup, good to see that you r back after a long hiatus. For one thing, leaving the country in pursuit of better opportunities is not selling your soul. (International exposure is a wonderful thing. I guess I do not need to remind you that anybody who made a difference to India during the freedom struggle was educated abroad.) Nor is capitalism as bad as you describe it to be. Your assertion about being treated like second class citizens is not true either. For after all, I do not know what a first class citizen would be treated like. (I was one when in India)
If it is material comforts that I crave, then I am getting more than I could ask for here in the West. I do not agree with Suresh either in his lamentation.
One thing is generally true. There are fewer opportunities in India than there are in the west. But if you are good, you should be able to make it anywhere. The problem arises only if you aren\'t good enuff. You begin to blame the system.
Coming to the question of India being great or not, how do you define greatness. If it is measured in terms of the contributions you make for the betterment of human life across the world, India WAS indeed great. It was the fountainhead of a lot of knowledge and spirituality. Not too long ago (before we became slaves), India accounted for about 85% of the world\'s known wealth. But the past few centuries have been periods of stagnation for us. We are sinking deeper and deeper into this morass.
With hardwork and honesty, we can regain our status in the world.
If it is material comforts that I crave, then I am getting more than I could ask for here in the West. I do not agree with Suresh either in his lamentation.
One thing is generally true. There are fewer opportunities in India than there are in the west. But if you are good, you should be able to make it anywhere. The problem arises only if you aren\'t good enuff. You begin to blame the system.
Coming to the question of India being great or not, how do you define greatness. If it is measured in terms of the contributions you make for the betterment of human life across the world, India WAS indeed great. It was the fountainhead of a lot of knowledge and spirituality. Not too long ago (before we became slaves), India accounted for about 85% of the world\'s known wealth. But the past few centuries have been periods of stagnation for us. We are sinking deeper and deeper into this morass.
With hardwork and honesty, we can regain our status in the world.
- Murali
- Guest
india
Murali
I really don’t have the statistics, but I have reason to believe that the government spends a good deal of money on training IIT and IIMians. And where do these people land-up? Abroad of course. It is very easy to attribute this to the fact that there are more opportunities abroad than in India. But if this sort of situation continues, there is never bound to be another way.
As regards the leaders of the Indian national movement, please don’t compare them to the scum who call themselves politicians. Those men were committed. Leaving the best of opportunities abroad, the strove to work for the betterment of their motherland. They did not leave the country even when there were opportunities for them to do well in other lands. They could surely have earned more, they could have had the best of creature comforts, they could have been recognized and hailed, as some invariably were. But no. They chose to shun all the glamor, glitter and lucre to return to the heat and dust of their native land to free it from the foreign yoke.
Old Latham and the Bronx are instances enough to assure one that racism is well and truly a part and parcel of life abroad. Maybe the sheltered life of universities does not bring people into touch with reality, but Racism has existed and continues to thrive. Why go so far! Rap itself is a response to a racist system! There’s no denying that. Forgive me if I sound intrusive, but are you really treated well in the US? Don’t people treat you a little less than they do a westerner? Do your American colleagues get paid the same as you or do they get a little more? Do they work as hard, or as efficiently as you do? Do you find the ethos and the psyche of the people conducive to personal (not material) development? If you can answer these questions, you will see what I mean by being a “second class citizen”.
Material comforts abound in the western world, but they lack the binding strength of us Indians. I am not peddling spirituality here. Just stating the facts.
People, you say, can make it anywhere if they are good enough. In the same breath however, you admit that there are insufficient opportunities here. Blaming the system is much more than a case of sour grapes. It is a question to the people as to why they have allowed themselves to sink to these pathetic depths. Until and unless a few dedicated individuals take up the responsibility of steering the nation towards a self-sufficient path, there will always be a dearth of opportunities. This relates to one of my earlier cribs about our not having the right sort of leadership among the youth. That, I personally feel can solve most of our problems. I may be wrong here, but I think there is some amount of idealism left in the youth. That may be our only saving grace.
I really don’t have the statistics, but I have reason to believe that the government spends a good deal of money on training IIT and IIMians. And where do these people land-up? Abroad of course. It is very easy to attribute this to the fact that there are more opportunities abroad than in India. But if this sort of situation continues, there is never bound to be another way.
As regards the leaders of the Indian national movement, please don’t compare them to the scum who call themselves politicians. Those men were committed. Leaving the best of opportunities abroad, the strove to work for the betterment of their motherland. They did not leave the country even when there were opportunities for them to do well in other lands. They could surely have earned more, they could have had the best of creature comforts, they could have been recognized and hailed, as some invariably were. But no. They chose to shun all the glamor, glitter and lucre to return to the heat and dust of their native land to free it from the foreign yoke.
Old Latham and the Bronx are instances enough to assure one that racism is well and truly a part and parcel of life abroad. Maybe the sheltered life of universities does not bring people into touch with reality, but Racism has existed and continues to thrive. Why go so far! Rap itself is a response to a racist system! There’s no denying that. Forgive me if I sound intrusive, but are you really treated well in the US? Don’t people treat you a little less than they do a westerner? Do your American colleagues get paid the same as you or do they get a little more? Do they work as hard, or as efficiently as you do? Do you find the ethos and the psyche of the people conducive to personal (not material) development? If you can answer these questions, you will see what I mean by being a “second class citizen”.
Material comforts abound in the western world, but they lack the binding strength of us Indians. I am not peddling spirituality here. Just stating the facts.
People, you say, can make it anywhere if they are good enough. In the same breath however, you admit that there are insufficient opportunities here. Blaming the system is much more than a case of sour grapes. It is a question to the people as to why they have allowed themselves to sink to these pathetic depths. Until and unless a few dedicated individuals take up the responsibility of steering the nation towards a self-sufficient path, there will always be a dearth of opportunities. This relates to one of my earlier cribs about our not having the right sort of leadership among the youth. That, I personally feel can solve most of our problems. I may be wrong here, but I think there is some amount of idealism left in the youth. That may be our only saving grace.
- prakup
- Guest
india
Exactly my point. If you see one of my posts in one of the other boards, I am for limited participation of the govt in non crucial areas and post secondary education is one of them. So the govt should have no business running IITs and IIMs.
Coming to the point of \"second class citizen\", I think it is a very uninformed and rather antediluvian comment. I do make as much money if not more than my american colleagues and I can say with certainity, anyone who has advanced faster than I is simply better than I am. To be honest, I think, USA is much more receptive to aliens than any other country in the world (India included).
It is rather sad that a large number of our best engineers end up abroad. But I think the trend is reversing. I come into contact on a day to day basis with many compatriots who have this burning fire in their underbellies, to do something for the betterment of our nations. These are not empty words. In most cases they are indeed translated very directly to actions. Heard of the contributions of ASHA (a NGO based in US for promoting education in India), AID (Association for India\'s development), IDRF (India development and relief fund). All these orgs have a massive following.
I agree with you on the need for \"few dedicated individuals take up the responsibility of steering the nation\". These could very well be some of the expats who chose to come back (Not that they are the only ones, but I feel that they have an advantage as they had the opportunity of studying multiple systems). I personally know of a few who did precisely that working for the organizations i mentioned above.
So to sum up, this is what I think.
1. It is not a sin to go abroad in pursuit of better opportunities.
2. It is a sin to forget your roots, especially if you are a product of one of those highly subsidized institutions like IITs, IIMs or the Govt. run engg. colleges. You have to give something back to your country if you leave the country.
3. There is racism. But I think overall USA is far more open and receptive to foreigners than any other country.
4. India stands to gain a lot from studying what drives the American society.
Coming to the point of \"second class citizen\", I think it is a very uninformed and rather antediluvian comment. I do make as much money if not more than my american colleagues and I can say with certainity, anyone who has advanced faster than I is simply better than I am. To be honest, I think, USA is much more receptive to aliens than any other country in the world (India included).
It is rather sad that a large number of our best engineers end up abroad. But I think the trend is reversing. I come into contact on a day to day basis with many compatriots who have this burning fire in their underbellies, to do something for the betterment of our nations. These are not empty words. In most cases they are indeed translated very directly to actions. Heard of the contributions of ASHA (a NGO based in US for promoting education in India), AID (Association for India\'s development), IDRF (India development and relief fund). All these orgs have a massive following.
I agree with you on the need for \"few dedicated individuals take up the responsibility of steering the nation\". These could very well be some of the expats who chose to come back (Not that they are the only ones, but I feel that they have an advantage as they had the opportunity of studying multiple systems). I personally know of a few who did precisely that working for the organizations i mentioned above.
So to sum up, this is what I think.
1. It is not a sin to go abroad in pursuit of better opportunities.
2. It is a sin to forget your roots, especially if you are a product of one of those highly subsidized institutions like IITs, IIMs or the Govt. run engg. colleges. You have to give something back to your country if you leave the country.
3. There is racism. But I think overall USA is far more open and receptive to foreigners than any other country.
4. India stands to gain a lot from studying what drives the American society.
- Murali
- Guest
india
Exactly my point. If you see one of my posts in one of the other boards, I am for limited participation of the govt in non crucial areas and post secondary education is one of them. So the govt should have no business running IITs and IIMs.
Coming to the point of \"second class citizen\", I think it is a very uninformed and rather antediluvian comment. I do make as much money if not more than my american colleagues and I can say with certainity, anyone who has advanced faster than I is simply better than I am. To be honest, I think, USA is much more receptive to aliens than any other country in the world (India included).
It is rather sad that a large number of our best engineers end up abroad. But I think the trend is reversing. I come into contact on a day to day basis with many compatriots who have this burning fire in their underbellies, to do something for the betterment of our nations. These are not empty words. In most cases they are indeed translated very directly to actions. Heard of the contributions of ASHA (a NGO based in US for promoting education in India), AID (Association for India\'s development), IDRF (India development and relief fund). All these orgs have a massive following.
I agree with you on the need for \"few dedicated individuals take up the responsibility of steering the nation\". These could very well be some of the expats who chose to come back (Not that they are the only ones, but I feel that they have an advantage as they had the opportunity of studying multiple systems). I personally know of a few who did precisely that working for the organizations i mentioned above.
So to sum up, this is what I think.
1. It is not a sin to go abroad in pursuit of better opportunities.
2. It is a sin to forget your roots, especially if you are a product of one of those highly subsidized institutions like IITs, IIMs or the Govt. run engg. colleges. You have to give something back to your country if you leave the country.
3. There is racism. But I think overall USA is far more open and receptive to foreigners than any other country.
4. India stands to gain a lot from studying what drives the American society.
Coming to the point of \"second class citizen\", I think it is a very uninformed and rather antediluvian comment. I do make as much money if not more than my american colleagues and I can say with certainity, anyone who has advanced faster than I is simply better than I am. To be honest, I think, USA is much more receptive to aliens than any other country in the world (India included).
It is rather sad that a large number of our best engineers end up abroad. But I think the trend is reversing. I come into contact on a day to day basis with many compatriots who have this burning fire in their underbellies, to do something for the betterment of our nations. These are not empty words. In most cases they are indeed translated very directly to actions. Heard of the contributions of ASHA (a NGO based in US for promoting education in India), AID (Association for India\'s development), IDRF (India development and relief fund). All these orgs have a massive following.
I agree with you on the need for \"few dedicated individuals take up the responsibility of steering the nation\". These could very well be some of the expats who chose to come back (Not that they are the only ones, but I feel that they have an advantage as they had the opportunity of studying multiple systems). I personally know of a few who did precisely that working for the organizations i mentioned above.
So to sum up, this is what I think.
1. It is not a sin to go abroad in pursuit of better opportunities.
2. It is a sin to forget your roots, especially if you are a product of one of those highly subsidized institutions like IITs, IIMs or the Govt. run engg. colleges. You have to give something back to your country if you leave the country.
3. There is racism. But I think overall USA is far more open and receptive to foreigners than any other country.
4. India stands to gain a lot from studying what drives the American society.
- Murali
- Guest
india
Murali, finally there\'s someone that speaks sense. I agree with you on your perspective. I think a major reason of how India views life in the States is plain ignorance. Where did people get the idea that Indians in the States are paid lower or treated like second class citizens? America is one of the most liberal and accepting countries in the world. They have a better understanding of diversity and how it helps drive growth (both social and economic) than we ever will. Further, I also think we Indians have absolutely no right to talk about racism. They do not understand that it is a part of their daily existence - we are open to discriminating within our own. I agree racism still exists in the States and other western countries but realize that the way we treat people of other castes and religions in our country is absolutely appalling and a clear evidence of racism. Clearly, no one wants to talk about that, it seems. Whatever the reason maybe - ignorance or the green bug, believe me, most Indians abroad are more conscious about their country and its issues than the ones in India are. This is simply because of the exposure they have to living in a society that is bound not in a 3000 year old cultural shell, but by a bond created by rooting out differences over decades. There is much to be learnt from a country that has developed far more than we have. Look beyond the box and over the stereo-type of western evil and you will realize what we are and what we can be.
- conscious
- Guest
india
I don\'t believe it will do you or me for me to reply to yout note regarding me doing something for India. I am trying to do my part and I expect others to do their\'s - no mater where they are, and what ventilation system their office has. This bulletin space is to generate constructive discussions, not to make digs at people you do not agree with.
- conscious
- Guest
Tu Mahan ... TERA BHARAT MAHAN!
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HAMARA BHARAT MAHAN! ... Ham Cute Dogs Ke Liye Bhi
Haan Bhai ... HAMARA BHARAT MAHAN! ... Ham Cute Dogs Ke Liye Bhi ... Aap Kya Kahtey Hain !?!
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HAMARA BHARAT MAHAN! ...
HAMARA BHARAT MAHAN! ... Infosys To Set Up Software Campus In Shanghai (Indian Express)
India's second-biggest software exporter, Infosys Technologies Ltd, said on Wednesday it would invest $10 million over the next two years to build a software campus in the Chinese city of Shanghai.
Infosys, which is expanding in China like industry leader Tata Consultancy Services to help global customers and hire low-cost staff, told the stock exchange its new centre would also house back-office services and training facilities.
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