Ab hum Nizam (Mir Osman Ali Khan) key kuch batien yad karien

[bhaimiya (ex-udhas)]

Nizam Sarkar ek baar university ka doora kiya aur students sey sawal kiya key padai khatam karney key baad kya banogey, kisi ney kaha doctor to kisney ney kaha engineer aur koyee kaha wakeel banoga, Nizam Sarkar ko yeh jawab pasand nahi aaye aur unho ney kaha key unko agar jawab 15 days key undar nahi mila to university band kar di jayegi. Kuch days guzerney key baad ek ghareeb student VC key pass aaya aur kaha key Nizam Sarkar ko jawab mein donga, VC ney us ladkey sey pucha kya tum jawab dey saktey ho, us ladkey ney kaha Inshallah, kher woh ladka Nizam Sarkar key pass pesh huwa aur kha key Sarkar mein aapkey sawal ka jawab doonga, Sarkar ney kaha theek hey, Us ladkey ney kaha mein padai khatam karney key baad mulk aur khom ki khidmat karonga, Nizam Sarkar uskey jawab sey bahut khoosh huwey aur kaha is ladkey key liye university khooli rahegee aur is key saat dusrey ladkey bhi padeingey.

[Kwaabon se haqeeqat ki duniya mein aaiye]

Bhaimiya, \"Mulk aur khaum ki khidmat\" karne ke liye kuch banna padta hai..docotr, engineer, teacher vaghaira....to baat meri kusch samajh mein nahin aayi..vo ladka jo Nizam ke paas gaya that jawab lekar...woh kaise karne waala tha \"mulk aur khaum ki khidmat\"? Chapraasi ban kar....

Baat kuch jachi nahin saaheb!

[Bhaimiya]

Janab Haqeeqat Sahib: Us ladkey ka matlab hi yehi tha chahey woh doctor baney ya engineer woh banega mulk aur khom ki khidmat karney key liye apni jeb gharam karney key liye nahi.

[millionaire]

i will enjoy with two hot chicks at the same time

[Kulcha Hyderabadi]

Jitney Musalmaan Rickshaw waley Nizam ke daur mein the, aur jitnee muflisee the Meem bhaiyon per, woh kabhi nahi rahi hogi. Mere khayal se Nizam ek bad-dua thee... chalo acha hua mar khap gayaa budda. Baap ki jageer thee jo kharch kartey the?? aaj aulad ko dekho, chippa lekar galli galli phir raha hai kamzarf. Haraam kamaye tho aisich hota basha.

[Siasatdan]

kulcha Miyan!! Naam to aisa rakhe,

Kulcha ke history maloom....maloom hoti to yeh nahin likhte raja!!!



Quam yani meem bhai nahin!!



Aazadi ke baad pani ka koi hal nahin nikall sake!

Koi apni yeh (osmania) paykar pe university nahin nikal sake!





Ustaad itihas me jhank kar dekho!! Kafi ehsan hain Nizam ka is shar pur. Aab kya karen woh dour hi zamindari ka tha...... usme haraam ki kamai ki kya baat pehlwan.



Gali dena ehsan faramoshi hain!! Chalo pachas saal gujaar gaye!! Kya kare aap loga democracy me!!! Aaj bhi Doctor ek miya bhai doctor nikla to 50 tenth fail nikalte.



Apne sheeso ke ghar me baith kar mat dekho pashu!! Hotel me baith kar chai to pete!! Table saaf karne wale bache ke mustakbil ke bare me sonche!!! Usko paise de ke cigratte mangate na aap. Itaich kaum ka khayal hain to apni jindah=gi me ek to bhi bacche ko sponsor kar ke padlo miya.



Ghar ki kamwali ke potte ko ek kalam hi dila diyo!!! Gaali dena aasan hain miya!! haqeeqt dekhna mushkil.

[Tipu]

Aaj kal ke pottaon ku history nahi maloom, ghalat salat sun ke pukar te rehte, kulche miya, tumhare nana se poocho, Nizam ka daor accha tha ya kharab.

[asli_badmash]

Nizam didnt get togather with Tipu Sultan when Tipu fought the British. Insted he allied with the British and was happy to sit on the Gaddi when he should have fought them tooth and nail.



"G" mein dum tha to Tipu Sultan ke sath milke British ke "G" pe laath maar sakte the. Par nahin... apne ku ganja, hookah or harem se fursat milli to na. Apne mehel mein dubak ke baithe. Self-respect nahin tha.. kuch nahin tha.



Isliye aaj-kal koi nahin puchta Nizam ke logoon ku. Australia mein Murgi ka farm chala-re.. ande, murghiyaan bech ke paise kama re. Aur phir purane zevarat mele to unko bhi bech ke paise udda dere.



Phir kayka Nizam... Leader bole to Tipu Sultan, Jhansi ki Rani ke jaisa rehna... Jaan jaye par apni Izzat nahin jaye. Ye Nizam ke khandaan wale.. sab kuch bech ke kha gaye... Hyderabad ku bhi bech diye.



~badmash~

[azazel]

AB yaar, Mir Osman Ali Khan ku chodke aap kaunse Nizam ke baatan karrai bhai ??



vaise, its not all tht black or white.. the Nizams esp. the last one did a lot for the ppl of Hyd.. as far the descendants go, they just weren't smart enough i guess.. the 7th Nizam was the richest man in the world at one time, how the fortunes change..

[asli_badmash]

AB yaar, Mir Osman Ali Khan ku chodke aap kaunse Nizam ke baatan karrai bhai ??

vaise, its not all tht black or white.. the Nizams esp. the last one did a lot for the ppl of Hyd.. as far the descendants go, they just weren't smart enough i guess.. the 7th Nizam was the richest man in the world at one time, how the fortunes change..

Samjho Yaaroo...!



Imagine me sitting in a group of people and talking about the glory of Hyderabad and how it was one of the best princely states of India and all that. I am saying one good thing after another and then we get into a debate about the history of India. And these people from Jhansi and Pune pulverize me.... with one fact after the other. I felt so humiliated, they called us Hyderabadis pussies, just because the Nizam decided to kiss British Ass. God damn it.... I couldnt say anything. Mera Pathan Khun Jaal ke kala ho gaya. I wish I was around when the British were here... I would have kicked their ASS!



Yes I am still proud of being a Hyderabadi but I am not proud of its contribution to the freedom struggle... specially of the royal Nizam family. It lost the kingdom anyway... why couldnt they go down fighting ? God damn Nawabs...



~badmash~

[DQ]

Samjho Yaaroo...!



Imagine me sitting in a group of people and talking about the glory of Hyderabad and how it was one of the best princely states of India and all that. I am saying one good thing after another and then we get into a debate about the history of India. And these people from Jhansi and Pune pulverize me.... with one fact after the other. I felt so humiliated, they called us Hyderabadis pussies, just because the Nizam decided to kiss British Ass. God damn it.... I couldnt say anything. Mera Pathan Khun Jaal ke kala ho gaya. I wish I was around when the British were here... I would have kicked their ASS!



Which part of History are you living in Asli.



You do not live in History, you learn lessons of it.



The Nizam was the only visionary compared to most of the princely state.



When you talk about Pathan Khun, who invited the British to trade in India, The Mughal emporer --- (Pathan)



Before the current democratic system came into place, it was and age of survival of the fittest.



When you look back into history, India was divided into many princely states. The Mughals invaded and ruled most part of India, but it was still not in their control.



Then came the age of British, they came in to trade, and eventually went on to rule. They had the brains to dispose of the Mughals. Most of the other states assisted them in Ukhadofying Delhi ki Gaddi. As most of them felt the threat of the Mughal empire, they thought that British are foreign and will go away.



They inturn started to rule, and occupy (Present Iraq). Now the best ruler was he who saw the best interest of his people.



The Nizam saw that, education and skill has made these people so powerful. So he reached a treaty with them, and went about bringing in development of his people. Education, food , water etc. Other wise like the rest there would be another enslaved state. Most of the other states that did this, their people had better lives.



He did not particpate in freedom struggle as democracy was unheard of until then. It was the survival of the fittest.



And what gained India its freedom. Non violence or Violence.



Due respect to Jhansi and Tipu, who lead a brave front, showing that Indians if needed will give thier lives. And due respect to Nizam who showed that Indians will be diplomatic if need be.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

The Nizam was the only visionary compared to most of the princely state.

AFAIK, Quili Qutubshah was the visionary and Nizam was the puppet of Aurangajeb (he laid seige of Golcanda fort for 30 days(?) before QQ gave in and then established his puppet govt - Nizam) and Aurangajeb's regime is the lowest point of Mughal empire. He is known for his cruelty towards the Hindu community and it is during his regime that mass conversions were done and hindu-muslim hatred strarted, till then the coexistence was peaceful. Aurangajeb is also responsible for the decline of Mughal empire, he simply fought too many wars (south was never ruled by the mughals and he waged war on southern kingdoms to expand the empire) as a result of which the mughals forces were spread thin and it was easy for the britishers to take over.

[The last time I said the same thing in this very forum, I was accused of being a RSS vadi and my history safronised. ]

Interesting snippet I read from a book published on the 50th anniversary of Indian independance - Interviews/memoirs of British soldiers and officials working in India at the time of independance - a british lady recounted that the Last Nizam had a harem of ~ 300 women and their children

Anyway, can you tell me what the Nizam did as a visionary (other than OU)? or direct me to a site or book where I can find the necessary information.

[DQ]

The Nizam was the only visionary compared to most of the princely state.

AFAIK, Quili Qutubshah was the visionary and Nizam was the puppet of Aurangajeb (he laid seige of Golcanda fort for 30 days(?) before QQ gave in and then established his puppet govt - Nizam) and Aurangajeb's regime is the lowest point of Mughal empire. He is known for his cruelty towards the Hindu community and it is during his regime that mass conversions were done and hindu-muslim hatred strarted, till then the coexistence was peaceful. Aurangajeb is also responsible for the decline of Mughal empire, he simply fought too many wars (south was never ruled by the mughals and he waged war on southern kingdoms to expand the empire) as a result of which the mughals forces were spread thin and it was easy for the britishers to take over.
[The last time I said the same thing in this very forum, I was accused of being a RSS vadi and my history safronised. ]
Interesting snippet I read from a book published on the 50th anniversary of Indian independance - Interviews/memoirs of British soldiers and officials working in India at the time of independance - a british lady recounted that the Last Nizam had a harem of ~ 300 women and their children
Anyway, can you tell me what the Nizam did as a visionary (other than OU)? or direct me to a site or book where I can find the necessary information.

You are right: Mayavi. It s been long since some one has written some sense.

The facts about Aurangzeb being cruel are right. He has no acheivment to his credit, nor does he deserve a place in history.



Fortunately or No, such rulers have tarnished the amount of work done by the Mughals.



Though he did not resort to mass conversion, he was not interested in religion at all. Plundering was his only passion. The amount Muslims suffered under his rule is not written at all (anyway thats secondary).



300 Women in his Harem.

Is a false pretension in history.

The known fact about the last Nizam is he adpated an entire area around his palace, adaption was such that he gave them a share of his earnings (all people who anyway used to live on his charity.) Were now share holders, that way later generations could not make them homeless as lands gifted to them were now part of hiearchy.



This adaption people state was his harem. Where history and people very close to him swear that he did not touch a woman of that area. It was only to secure thier futures and to undo the wrongs done by his earlier generations and their generals.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

mmmm... No. Harems for kings and nawabs of that time were very common, but 300 is a high number and they were all his concubines or their daughters. As is a custom, nizam didnt allow his women to mingle freely with others or be even seen, but during parties hosted for the britishers he used to allow two or three of his daughters and wives to socialise with the british ladies and one such british lady who talked to his daughters gave the interview. I think I still have the URL for that book, its online.

Other interesting things I read in that book were accounts how a maharajah developed liking for young men (gay during the british times!) and how the british soldiers used to hunt pigs as they were bored of enjoying women and a eurasian trader who had a huge mansion and in that a corridor, the rooms to the left of which housed his hindu 'concubines' and right of which housed his muslim 'wives'. Made me wonder, whats the value of a women in the socitey of that period.

Anyway, that was way off topic. I am interested in knowing about Nizam and his good deeds. One more thing I can think of, other that OU is the underground drianage system, but that was vishweshwarayya's (Indias first engineer) idea and he was the one who convinced Nizam to exectue the project.

What did Nizam do for the Hyderabadis, what was the health care system like during his time (Mysore had the best health care system/educational facilities during Raj), how were the hindus treated, was there religious equality in the government? Were hindus given high positions in the government?

AFAIK, vast areas of agriculture land (close to 60%) was owned by muslims who constitued only 10 % of the population and Nizam encouraged zamindari system and supressed poor farmers, and this problem is still plaguing the telangana country side.

[CtrlAltDel]

The Nizam was the only visionary compared to most of the princely state.

he did do a lot for hyderabad in his hey-days...but what hapnd towards the end? he delegated all powers to the Razakars n became their puppet. my family lost some friends to those Razakar dogs and I hold the Nizam responsible. good thing he got his ass kicked and his family got dumped in the trash cans of history.

even i had faced jibes abt Nizam's ass kissing of the Brits, but i dont mind that...there were many rulers in India who sided with the Brits..the Nizams were not the only ones.

[CtrlAltDel]

how were the hindus treated, was there religious equality in the government? Were hindus given high positions in the government?

yes there was...Nizam was highly tolerant until Razakars made him a figure head. he got many hindus from all over India to hydbad and made them high ranking officials of his govt.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

There were two types of rulers during Raj.

Those who couldnt fight the british, but didnt want to give up their kingdoms out of love for the people. They paid whatever taxes the british demanded and gave their people good rule. The Lagaan type ruler, the Jahnasi bhai's, the mysore maharajahs.

Then there are rulers who couldnt fight british and resorted to ass licking and levied heavier taxes on people so that they can pay the british and also fill their own coffers. Nizams fall in this category how else did they become worlds richest king while paying taxes to british. erstwhile hyderabadi was not resource rich state like thier counterparts in northern India.

[DQ]

Unfortunatley, History has been recorded by bias.



People in power ensured that history was written the way they want it potrayed. Exactly what manohar joshi tried and succeded a wee bit.



But still I am no stalwart of history. My knowledge comes from books and live sittings that I had with a lot of people, who had seen the time of the last Nizam (Mir Osman Ali Khan).



The last Nizam would wear a Sherwani with a patch on it, goes on to explain misappropriation of funds?



Even after so much criticism please read http://www.ourmch.com/hyd/hydhistor.asp



If you need to be unbiased, read happening of time trying to visualise those times, do not comapre it with today.



If you compare it with today, you will find atrocious theifs in every ruler.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Something I dont understand, why is it that the other version is always biased and whatever you(in general) hear or read is the orignial version.

Whatever murli manohar joshi did, he did it in the last few years, that didnt color my view. Besides, Indian history was never recorded by Indians but by europeans and leftists.

People in power ensured that history was written the way they want it potrayed. Exactly what manohar joshi tried and succeded a wee bit.

whatever you got to hear was also from people who were in power at sometime or other

I donot know what murli manohar joshi did, Can you enlighten me a bit? All I know is that the text books were badly written and the people who wrote it plagiarised from famous historians. This is what intellectuals (people without any leanings) think and the general belief is that he tried to get rid of the left leanings in out books, but I donot know to what extent he saffronised it.

Anyway, that was general gripe. Your link is not working.

[DQ]

If you are ignorant do not argue!!!



An age in which we live, we have seen the autocratic rule of the past govt. We have seen the blantant mis regard for norms and human lives.



Any way thats not the post for this topic.



See what happens when a letter goes missing, you just loose track of history.



http://www.ourmch.com/hyd/hydhistory.asp

[Mayavi Morpheus]

If you are oh-so-intellignet, please enlighten others and spread the light of ur knowledge.

Piece of advice, dont assume that the other person is a lame ass when u re in a debate. I have seen you do that in other threads too (the helmet thread for example). If you know something, share it. I have asked a genuine question, Its you that claimed that other versions are biased, o explain me whats true version and whats bias.

And FYI, I believe all rulers, barring few, before independence were jack asses, not just nizams.

[DQ]

And FYI, I believe all rulers, barring few, before independence were jack asses, not just nizams.

Well that is your beleif, is it a fact ?



Those were diff times, we are living in diff times. See history through time, not from where you stand today. If so then you will see it the way you beleive.



Why do you want others to see things the way you see it. Read first before lashing out.



What Joshi did, is not for me to enlighten, why did he not find a place for Marxism !! Ah well do not drool me into this argument, enlighten yourself.

If it is hard to do so then live with beleiving that missonaries sole purpose was conversion, India was maruded et etc...



!!!!!!AGAIN HISTORY IS TO BE LEARNT NOT LIVED IN!!!!

Learn from history, do not live in it, and do not force the masses to live in it.

Get on with life BE POSITIVE.

Why do you get so worked up when arguing. Be Calm!!!



Lol that is so hypo, are you an CAD the same!!!

[asli_badmash]

Which part of History are you living in Asli. You do not live in History, you learn lessons of it.

I live in the part of history which matters! That is today. Yes Hyderabad today is a vestige of glory you are talking about. But it is what it is today and it is because of some of the decisions that were taken yesterday.

The Nizam was the only visionary compared to most of the princely state.

Yes he was probably a visionary; bringing education and a good system of governance and everything. But what matters is he capitulated to the power politics that the English were subjecting Indian people to; just so that he could save his ass and enjoy his kingdom for some time more, while settling scores with his current enemies; Marathas and Mysore.

When you talk about Pathan Khun, who invited the British to trade in India, The Mughal emporer --- (Pathan)

Yes the Moghuls invited the British.. only to trade. What happened subsequently(British Raj) was not because of the decision to invite people to TRADE. It was because the Indian sub-continent was divided into many small insignificant colonies and the British had the acumen to see the bigger picture.

Before the current democratic system came into place, it was and age of survival of the fittest.

You call it survival of the fittest! then the Nizam should have been wiped off of the face of earth long time ago. They were inept and all they could think of was to ally with the strongest power so they could prevail over their petty personal issues; that is the Marathas and Mysore. Instead of allying with Indians to fight the British, the Nizam choose to ally with the British and fight his own people.

The Nizam saw that, education and skill has made these people so powerful. So he reached a treaty with them, and went about bringing in development of his people. Education, food , water etc. Other wise like the rest there would be another enslaved state. Most of the other states that did this, their people had better lives.

Yes I give him that... he was good in that respect. But he reached at a treaty; that signifies capitulation and personal interest.

He did not particpate in freedom struggle as democracy was unheard of until then. It was the survival of the fittest.

Freedom struggle was not for democracy... It was because we had this invading power trying to occupy and run our lives the way they thought fit, by imposing Victorian rules and regulations. Democracy was not proposed till late in Indian Freedom struggle. And all he did was save his ASS by not fighting the British.

And what gained India its freedom. Non violence or Violence.

Yes we gained freedom by Non-violence... not by not doing anything which does not amount to non-violence.. it amounts to cowardice and self-serving nature. If Nizam was so non-violent why don’t we hear the Nizam’s name in India’s Non-Violence freedom struggle? He thought the British are too strong and the Indian freedom struggle would eventually loose to the British. So he was happy to ride out the situation hoping the British would win and give him back his Kingdom. If he remains in their good books!

Due respect to Jhansi and Tipu, who lead a brave front, showing that Indians if needed will give thier lives. And due respect to Nizam who showed that Indians will be diplomatic if need be.

...That is not Diplomacy for your information; not doing anything about it is Cowardice. Maybe I am harsh here but that’s how I feel. Diplomacy can only be practiced by the stronger of the two people. The underdog can only fight and hope to win. And we all know Nizam was not stronger than British. So please don’t disguise Cowardice under the garb of Diplomacy. Yes you can say he saved his ass by signing a treaty, I will agree to that but Diplomacy... Please!

The facts about Aurangzeb being cruel are right. He has no acheivment to his credit, nor does he deserve a place in history. Fortunately or No, such rulers have tarnished the amount of work done by the Mughals.

Aurangzeb does have a place in the history. If you read history properly; he took power by force from his father who was given to pleasures of life and was doing nothing for the people or the kingdom. He enforced strict rules, which probably were not right, but he thought of them to be correct. He levied taxes on non-muslims called the Jaziya(or something like that). He did resort to iconoclasm and converted people by force, but I am not sure about mass-conversions. That is one of the reasons we have this hatred for Muslims among the Hindu community. What ever Akbar did with his democratic rule was undone by the rule of Aurangazeb. And thus laid the seed for RSS and Muslim militant organization! And in some ways Pakistan too!

Though he did not resort to mass conversion, he was not interested in religion at all.

You have to get your facts right; he was very interested in religion. He never took any money from the treasury for his upkeep. He was a principled man. Instead he used to pen Qurans for his livelihood. That should show how religious he was!

Plundering was his only passion. The amount Muslims suffered under his rule is not written at all (anyway thats secondary).

...He was a king for crying out loud. He was cruel but he had to be; Successful rulers are never compassionate people. Ashoka the great before he became a Buddhist was one of the most cruel rulers of his time. Expanding his kingdom at will and engaging in wars with neighbors to expand his kingdom. Aurangzeb didn’t plunder personally; the rule of the war is that; If the opposing army wins they get to share the loot. Read Sun-Tzu- Art of war. This was the norm for that time. This is what motivated attackers to fight wars. So you are being biased if you call the King a plunderer. The ultimate motive of war is loot the spoils by the army.

300 Women in his Harem. Is a false pretension in history.

I am not sure if this is true but I have heard conflicting reports about this issue. But one thing is true he was given to womanizing and good times. Thus we have the word “Hyderabadi Nawab”; denoting people given to pleasures of life while being laid back. By the way it is a condescending term.



~badmash~

[asli_badmash]

Why do you get so worked up when arguing. Be Calm!!!Lol that is so hypo, are you an CAD the same!!!

BTW; What is hypo??

All I know is:

- Means below or deficient. For example, as in "Hypothermia is a subnormal body temperature."

- Greek prefix for under, below.

Did you mean HYPER ???



All I see in your posts is subtle sarcasm. Dont get hurt, this is how you learn. If something is right... it is and you are not considered a loser by agreeing with some points.



While you have some good points.. you tend to be biased in your opinions. Maybe in my first post about Nizam, I was venting my anger. I was probably wrong.



Also do you know what NIZAM means in Urdu.. It means the SYSTEM. You connect the rest of the dots!



~badmash~

[CtrlAltDel]

Also do you know what NIZAM means in Urdu.. It means the SYSTEM.

hmmm...sounds so Matrix-ish...